Emma 6-10: “Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss”
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Emma Woodhouse is fully prepared to girl boss her way through life, but are we prepared to support her? (Answer: maybe.) This week we're using our theme of tradition to share some hot takes about adaptations and learn where Mr. Knightley's home got its name.
Transcript
Reclaiming Jane Season 4, Episode 2 | Emma 6-10: “Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss”
Emily: [00:00:00] This is Reclaiming Jane, an Austen podcast for fans on the margins.
Lauren: I'm Lauren Wethers,
Emily: and I'm Emily Davis-Hale.
Lauren: And today we're reading chapters six through 10 of Emma through the theme of tradition.
Emily: The entire time I've been prepping for this episode, my brain has been singing tradition...
Lauren: Oh--
Emily: tradition!
Lauren: No, I was, I was about to say, I was like, now what is that from? Is that a commercial?
Emily: Fiddler on the Roof!
Lauren: Oh, duh.
Emily: A commercial?! Lauren Wethers.
Lauren: no, because. What was it? I think there was something that interpolated it for a brand.
Emily: Oh.
Lauren: Probably because in, in my brain. I hear my mom and my brother, and I would like poke fun at that because we would sing that for taquitos. Like taquitos, taquitos!
Emily: Absolutely incredible.
Lauren: And I don't know if that's because a commercial used it or because my mom just knows Fiddler on the Roof and was just singing it to be silly, but that's all I hear in my head.
Emily: That's fair. That's fair.
Lauren: I'm so sorry.
Emily: Please don't apologize. Now I'm going to think of that whenever I think of taquitos.
Lauren: Lovely. I was like, out of all the things to think about when it comes to, to tradition. There are so many different ways that we can take today's discussion. So I am excited to see what you're thinking of, either just for history connection, or for ways you saw tradition in the text, all that kind of stuff. Since we have so much discussion of marriage and what makes a good match. [00:02:00] And I feel like that is going to be a very, a rich topic for tradition today.
Emily: I, I agree. And I, as always, can't wait to see how pop culture comes into it, cuz it's always a surprise.
Lauren: I have some hot takes.
Emily: Yes. The best episodes are the ones where Lauren has hot takes. Oh, but I guess we should get into our hot recaps first.
Lauren: We should indeed. Okay. You are at first for the recap, which is good because I only half remember so I'm cheating off of you.
Emily: Cheating off of me and my notes.
Lauren: Yes.
Emily: All right. I'm, I'm ready.
Lauren: Okay.
Emily: Ish.
Lauren: All right. On your mark. Get set. Go.
Emily: All right. Emma decides to take a likeness of Harriet and Mr. Elton is absolutely in raptures about it. Mr. Martin writes a letter and proposes to Harriet, and then Emma talks her out of accepting him, which Mr. Knightley is mad at Emma about because he thinks that they would be a really good match.
Emma and Harriet start collecting riddles, which Elton uses as an opportunity to flirt. He does not miss a chance. Emma keeps scheming, but she apparently does not want to get married herself.
Lauren: Excellent.
Emily: Thank you.
Lauren: One second left.
Emily: One second left. I'll take it. Are you ready to see how you do?
Lauren: I hope so.
Emily: All right. 3, 2, 1, go.
Lauren: Okay. Emma is still scheming to get Harriet and Mr. Elton together, her first step is to take a likeness of Harriet and give it to Mr. Elton. Mr. Elton is in raptures over something, but I'm not convinced it's the actual portrait of Harriet. Mr. Martin writes to Harriet to convince her-- or to propose to her.
Harriet seems like she wants to accept it. Emma will not let her, as you said, Mr. Knightley is ticked. Mr. Elton writes a riddle in which he's professing his love for someone. Emma thinks it's Harriet, but who is it really? And Emma doesn't wanna get married.
Emily: all right. I feel like usually we, we have some differences in what we cover. I feel like we were just identical.
Lauren: They were the same beats. There was nothing else to cover.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah. I just added some color. That was pretty much it. [00:04:00]
Emily: A little commentary.
Lauren: A little commentary, a little food for thought.
Emily: But I mean, it's, it's pertinent commentary.
Lauren: It is.
Emily: Because Mr. Elton is showing his hand.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: But what, what hand is that exactly? Cause I feel like there's a couple different ways we can interpret it.
Lauren: Okay. What is your interpretation? Because I know you've seen the movie, but you've not read the book. So I'm interested to see what your interpretation is before I say anything.
Emily: No, I, I really think that he actually is flirting with Emma because like, he agrees with her--
Lauren: mm-hmm.
Emily: --When she says nice things about Harriet, but his own effusiveness is all for Emma's own wit and talent and everything she does. So Emma is just choosing to interpret it differently.
Lauren: Willfully misunderstanding every interaction the three of them are having.
Emily: Absolutely.
Lauren: It's almost another talent just how determined she is to interpret all of Mr. Elton's advances towards her as advances towards Harriet. Like where. Are you getting this?
Emily: She has decided what the world is going to be. And so that's what it is.
Lauren: And so the world is going to conform despite the fact that it is not giving her the signals that she wants.
Emily: Absolutely. Emma wants to be a girl boss so bad.
Lauren: Gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss. It's Emma's secret motto.
Emily: It's not really handsome, clever and rich. It's gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss.
Lauren: I mean, she's doing all three in these five chapters.
Emily: She is! Maybe a little less on the gas lighting, but.
Lauren: Yeah, because it's not as though she knows that Mr. Elton's actually into her and she's trying to gaslight Harriet into thinking that he's actually in love with her because she truly believes it. I do think there's a little bit of the gas lighting when it comes to her telling Harriet to reject Mr. Martin's proposal though.
Emily: Yeah, definitely.
Lauren: Yeah.
Emily: That made me so mad! That made me so mad. Mr. Martin writes this [00:06:00] beautiful short, concise letter asking Harriet to marry him and even Emma reads it and was like, damn, that is a good letter.
Lauren: Yeah!
Emily: And then still convinces Harriet-- I'm just, I'm, I'm with Knightley on this one again, this is unconscionable. Emma, what are you? What are you doing?
Lauren: Yeah.
Emily: She's, she's so terrible.
Lauren: Yeah. Rather than reading the letter and reexamining her own thoughts of Mr. Martin. Like, oh, maybe there is more to him than I, I originally thought, maybe I've written him off for no good reason.
She goes, okay. Well that was good, but still not good enough for you. It's like, okay. Well, reminder that you've created a story about Harriet in your brain about who she is. But the rest of the world is not conforming to the story that you have in your head. So Mr. Martin is going to be about the best that she can do.
And you just tanked that.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: For no reason.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: And she really wanted to marry him too. She was so excited. It wasn't like she came to Emma saying, oh, look at this stupid letter that I got. She clearly wants Emma's approval. And just wants Emma to say, yes, you should do this and wants to be sure that she's making the right decision, but she's excited. She's happy about it until Emma convinces her this isn't something that she should accept.
Emily: Damn it, Emma.
Lauren: That's gonna be a common refrain.
Emily: Yeah. Glimpses of our season sticker just 'dammit, Emma.'
Lauren: Honestly, that's probably gonna be a pretty good slogan.
Emily: all right. Good contender. Good contender. I'll have to make a note of it.
Lauren: Yeah, even with the, the, taking the likeness of Harriet to give to Mr. Elton, the signs are all there and Emma just cannot see it. He's not praising Harriet's beauty. He's praising how you are depicting her. He's praising you.
Emily: I think Mr. Knightley definitely sees it. He knows what's going on. He also makes some comments about how like, oh, Mr. Elton has spoken differently in circles that are only men.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And I [00:08:00] don't think that he's after what you think, because he says, basically, Mr. Elton's not stupid. He's not going to marry this girl with no resources.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Just because he thinks she's pretty. He, if he even does think she's pretty. He's a popular young man. He understands what he needs to succeed in life.
Lauren: He has a decent position in society. He's not going to just toss a home at any old person.
Emily: Mm-hmm. He can materially improve his own standing--
Lauren: mm-hmm.
Emily: --by marrying someone with status. He's not going to throw it away on Harriet Smith.
Lauren: Someone with status, someone who he's been hanging around quite constantly.
Emily: Someone rich and clever...
Lauren: and handsome... and it is not ringing any bells. I don't know who he'd go after.
Emily: Emma is just being intentionally obtuse. I feel like.
Lauren: She definitely is.
Emily: Which is kind of weird. Because someone typically with that set of traits also expects to be the object of flattery and desire.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And yet she has just completely railroaded this narrative to be all about Harriet.
Lauren: I wonder if it's because she's confident enough to know that she usually is the object of flattery and desire. It's not something that would stick in her brain the way it would for Harriet, who's not used to receiving compliments. Emma receives so many that these are just like of, 'oh, of course he's complimenting me by way of complimenting Harriet,' because that's the way she's decided to see it. And compliments don't mean as much to her because she gets complimented all the time because of course she does.
Why wouldn't she be complimented?
Emily: Yeah, I think she, I mean, she just wants to be the puppet master. She wants to arrange all of these little things.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: In whatever way she sees fit, but she doesn't actually want to be [00:10:00] involved.
Lauren: She wants to take credit.
Emily: Right. She doesn't want to be the drama.
Lauren: Is it me? Am I the drama?
Emily: Exactly.
Lauren: I don't think I'm the drama. Yes, baby, you are.
Emily: Yes, you are. You are creating all of the drama. Drama that does not need to be there.
Lauren: No.
Emily: Harriet could have accepted her sweet little proposal from Mr. Martin and gone on with her life and been perfectly happy. But no.
Lauren: That actually made-- like, one of the ways that I see tradition, like in this specifically is how Emma is bucking tradition a little bit by saying that she doesn't wanna get married, but she's right by saying, you know, I'm rich, so it doesn't matter. Which... she ain't wrong! And is encouraging Harriet to do the same by not marrying the very traditional Mr. Martin and somebody who would be a traditional good match for her.
Getting married for Harriet is within tradition, but marrying up the way she is? Not traditional. Or the way Emma wants her to. And rather than going with somebody who, even Mr. Knightley describes as very traditional. You know, he says, 'I never hear better sense from anyone than Robert Martin. He always speaks to the purpose, open, straightforward, very well judging. He told me his circumstances and plans and what they all propose doing in the event of his marriage.'
So clearly somebody who's very by the book, very conscious of where he stands in society and where Harriet stands and is aware of all of that and is doing everything properly. And then here Emma comes, who's like, yes, this would be proper, but who wants proper? Do something else!
Emily: You're boring.
yeah. It's interesting, definitely the clash of ideas around tradition and gender expectations here.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Especially with the conversation between Emma and Knightley talking about Robert Martin and Harriet. I, I [00:12:00] feel kind of bad for everyone's assessment of Harriet that like, she's just not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Lauren: Poor thing. And everyone is stripping her from her agency in every conversation.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: Just not-- 'Harriet can't make any decisions for herself. This is what's best for Harriet because Harriet is dumb.' Like, dang, give the girl a break.
Emily: They're like, yeah, she's sweet and she's pretty, but not all at home.
Lauren: That's all she's got to offer. Sweet and pretty.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: According to them, anyway.
Emily: According to them.
Lauren: That's so upsetting.
Emily: It is. I mean, it, it is also kind of in line with what we see, especially with the riddles, where she is...
Lauren: she's not getting it.
Emily: She's racking her brains, trying to figure out this riddle that Mr. Elton has shared with them. Whereas Emma gets it in like two seconds.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I, I got halfway there. I got ship.
Lauren: I feel like 21st century readers can give ourselves a little bit of like, a pass if we don't get it in two seconds, like Emma. But Harriet does live in this contemporary environment. And it's still just not, it's not clicking. Girl. It's right there. You just gotta... nope, not that. Not that-- Nope, not that either. No, that's, that's not it.
Emily: Your other left. Poor thing. Harriet deserves all of the, bless your hearts.
Lauren: Yeah, that's so true.
Emily: She gets an, "oh honey."
Lauren: so I just looked and I was looking at all the ways that Mr. Knightley just drags Harriet with no provocation. You're mad at Emma. You're not mad at Harriet, but here he goes. You know, "she's a natural daughter of nobody knows whom with probably no subtle provision at all. Certainly no respectable relations."
Okay, fine. That's just fact. But then, he goes on to say, "she's not a sensible girl or a girl of any information. She's been taught nothing useful and is too young and too simple to have acquired anything herself."
Emily: That's not her [00:14:00] fault! Also. Like, we can contrast it with what we learn about Emma and her tendencies. When she's talking about taking a likeness of Harriet,
Lauren: mm-hmm.
Emily: And goes through describing all of these things that she's just kind of picked up and dropped and all of these hobbies that she's just dabbled in because, relatably, if she's not perfect at it the first time she just doesn't wanna work hard and improve.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: there's so many critiques that Emma could hear and could improve from, but she will never hear them, because for one, only Knightley would ever offer a critique.
Lauren: Right.
Emily: And also, she would just laugh it off.
Lauren: Mm-hmm. She also at this point is so incapable of thinking of anyone's feelings other than her own, even though she claims to be thinking about Harriet and Mr. Elton's feelings in this, in the same conversation with Knightley, when she's giving her rebuttal to what he said, all of it is in relation to her. You know, her intimate friend, an acquaintance of her own. I wonder you should think it possible for me to have such feelings. I assure you mine are very different.
Lots of me, lots of my, like, not thinking about Harriet. At all.
Emily: And even when she's talking to Harriet about it, she's talking about how she wants to keep Harriet close to Hartfield so that they can be together.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And she wants to be able to walk down and visit Harriet anytime she wants. It's all about her. And we get that sense with even the little charitable visit that she's going on, visiting these, this poor family and bringing them, you know, some food and, and they're sick and she's caring for them. Like, what are you actually doing? How much are you really helping?
Lauren: Feeling good about herself.
Emily: Yeah, exactly.
Lauren: Yep. I've done a good deed. I think I wrote 'voluntourism' in the margins.
Emily: Yeah...Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah. it definitely gave the same vibes as people who go [00:16:00] to like, majority black or brown countries for a week. And then come back with pictures of like all the black children crowded around them. Like, oh my God, I learned so much. Like, okay, great.
Going back to Emma willfully misunderstanding all of Mr. Elton's attention to Harriet. When he first comes by to drop off the riddle, he's saying, you know, I'm not offering it for Miss Smith's collection, being my friend's, quote, unquote, I have a friend who wrote a thing. He just, you know, he doesn't mind if I share it with you.
I have no right to expose it in any degree to the public eye, but perhaps you may not dislike looking at it. And then the narration says, the speech was more to Emma than to Harriet, which Emma could understand." And I just wrote, 'girl.' But her, her reaction or her rationale for this is 'there was deep consciousness about him and he found it easier to meet her eye than her friend's.'
That's... no.
Emily: Honey. He is trying to flirt with you. He does not give a shit about Harriet.
Lauren: At all.
Emily: Except that treating her nicely will get him into your good graces. Emma is so calculating, like we talked about last episode that she has this whole social calculus in her mind, but she doesn't seem to be able to understand that other people also make those calculations.
Lauren: Mmhmm. For someone who is very smart, she's very stupid.
Emily: She really is. it's because she thinks that no one around her could possibly equal her.
Lauren: No. Nobody else has internal thoughts or lives or anything like that. They just exist within Emma's orbit or not at all.
Emily: They're just her little play things. yeah, Emma is horrible. This-- I'm enjoying this book so much already, but Emma is just the worst.
Lauren: I am really enjoying the return to Austen humor that we get with this book.
Emily: For sure.
Lauren: Because every page is hilarious. And so even though Emma is [00:18:00] endlessly irritating, she's an entertaining irritating. And so I'm not mad at it.
Emily: It's not just depressing like Fanny.
Lauren: Yeah. Emma, the book and Emma, the character are both just a trip.
Emily: definitely. I'm so glad that at least we have the voice of reason in Mr. Knightley, who seems to be the only one with any clear vision.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Of what's actually happening at Hartfield. And in Highbury.
Lauren: I want an adaptation of Emma with Mr. Knightley as the main character who's just looking around at the chaos like, am I the only one who can see what's going on? Am I the only one who has any sense? What is happening?
Emily: 50% of the runtime would be Knightley looking into the camera like Jim on The Office.
Lauren: Literally. That, or it would be like a musical adaptation where Mr. Knightley is the only one who knows he's in a musical.
Emily: Someone, please make it. I want to see that.
Lauren: He's just constantly like, what is going, why is everyone singing? When did we learn this choreography? I don't know what's going on!
Emily: He's the love interest from Enchanted.
Lauren: Yes. That's exactly what I was thinking of.
Emily: When did you guys have time to practice this?
Lauren: oh, he's he's in it, too? Oh, okay.
Emily: I want to see that so desperately.
Lauren: Oh my gosh. That would be so funny. Just ma-- even if just a YouTube video, a five minute clip, you know, I'd be satisfied. Somebody with video production skills, please make that happen.
Emily: Please.
Lauren: I'll donate to the GoFundMe, whatever it takes.
Emily: You'll have our eternal gratitude.
Lauren: Mm-hmm. What else comes to mind when you think of tradition in these five chapters at Emma?
Emily: Really it was the marriage conversation and then the gender roles in evidence that stood out to me.
Lauren: Say more about the gender roles?
Emily: Mostly in that conversation about Harriet refusing Mr. Martin, Emma, especially [00:20:00] has a line that says, "it is always incomprehensible to a man that a woman should ever refuse an offer of marriage."
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And then Knightley goes on and says the things about Harriet that you already quoted, but like beyond what it says explicitly in the text, there's also just the expectations of who Harriet would be as a farmer's wife, what her responsibilities would be, how she would be managing the households, having lots of pretty little babies. And that that would be kind of all she would be doing in life. Whereas Emma is also kind of challenging that by saying that she's not going to get married.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
She's a single woman of good fortune. So what use does she have for marriage? which is honestly...
Emily: she's completely right.
Lauren: She is very right. And that I wrote, I wrote that down as well, that that's breaking tradition, but also gets at some of the more modern views of marriage, which is that women are entering into marriage less frequently because we don't need men anymore.
We're either getting married less often, or we're getting divorced at higher rates because we don't need men to have credit cards or open bank accounts or to provide income. So if we don't need you, it means we're only marrying you because we want you. And a lot of men don't know what to do with that.
Emily: They need to take the Darcy route and improve themselves.
Lauren: Listen. if you're realizing that you can't get a date, maybe, maybe...
Emily: what's the, the common denominator here?
Lauren: What is the common denominator?
Emily: Is it that cursed amulet you wear, or is it you?
Lauren: It's gotta be the amulet.
Emily: It's gotta be the amulet! Beyond that, where there are other places that tradition stood out to you?
Lauren: Yeah. I think those were really the biggest places where tradition stood out and in that same conversation, talking about what it means to be, to be an old maid, the horror. And how that's traditionally viewed as something that is contemptible or something to be [00:22:00] avoided, but can be circumvented through class. I thought was really interesting. Cause Emma straight up says, and I won't be an old maid, I'll be rich. It's two different things.
Emily: Yeah. Was it this section or the one before where she's making the comparison to Ms. Bates?
Lauren: I thought it was this one, but they might be blending together in my head.
Emily: I think it is this one.
Lauren: Yeah.
Emily: Where basically she says, 'oh, I wouldn't be an old maid like Ms. Bates because Ms. Bates is poor.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: I will have money. And that makes all the difference. Yeah.
Lauren: I will have a station in society regardless. that's not guaranteed if you don't have money. You can maybe go be a governess for someone or hope that you have some nice family members, but otherwise, good luck.
Emily: Very telling so much. So much commentary about class in this too.
Lauren: Yeah, 100%. And perhaps how being of a higher class can lower your empathy for other people.
Emily: No kidding.
Lauren: If we have, if we've dissected all of the passages we would like to, what was your history context for today?
Emily: So it's a little tangential to the actual text this time, but I think it speaks to traditions and the breaking and changing of tradition because I was thinking about the name of Mr. Knightley's home, Donwell abbey.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: And why it's called that.
Lauren: Okay.
Emily: And it's called that. Because it probably used to be an abbey. I'm also prepping for my Tudor themed Ren Faire. So dissolution of the monasteries is on my mind.
I'm always a nerd, you guys. So the history of religious houses in England is a little tempestuous. During the medieval period. There were almost a thousand abbies, priories, and friaries established in England and Wales. So these were monasteries and nunneries that were primarily in [00:24:00] various Catholic traditions. Every monastery and nunnery had associated lands and tithes, which is all of the money that they get.
But under Henry VIII, you know, when he had his little falling out with the Catholic church.
Lauren: It was casual.
Emily: Little English reformation going on. He began the dissolution of the monasteries in 1536, which began by transferring the lands and property of smaller religious houses to the crown. So basically took all of their money, took all of their lands and said, you guys can't live in these religious communities anymore.
Like, shoo. It was of course, a lot more complex than that, but, you know, spark notes version. Yeah. Cliff notes. It, it was all part of the larger effort to reduce papal authority in England in favor of declaring Henry the head of the church of England. But once the crown owned that property and had all of those income streams, it was able to kind of dispense things as the king saw fit.
So, incomes and endowments would be sort of redistributed largely among the Gentry, this kind of ascending middle class, which also is how landowners like the Bertrams or Mr. Darcy became responsible for maintaining a living because they had like the lands and incomes of former religious houses and part of the deal, I guess, was that they had to continue to provide a stipend for a curate.
Lauren: Interesting.
Emily: Yeah. So that's why they end up choosing the priest of the parish.
Lauren: I --okay. Cuz I always had questions about that. So that makes a lot of sense.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. But there were also a lot of former abbots' lodgings. The abbot would've been the head administrator, I guess the father, I suppose, of an [00:26:00] abbey. So their houses were often pretty substantial, independent residences in their own right. And a lot of them were sold to lay people and then repurposed into country homes. So Mr. Knightley's family may have purchased a former abbot's lodging, you know, way back in the 16th century and it's just been handed down and kept the name of Donwell Abbey.
Lauren: Wow.
Emily: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: Cool. Thank you.
Emily: Yeah, you're so welcome. So yeah, that was what tugged on my brain strings this week.
Lauren: I love that. That's a good connection.
Emily: thanks. I am very excited to hear what your hot takes related to pop culture and Emma are this section.
Lauren: So when I was thinking of tradition and pop culture, my brain went to adaptations from book to film.
Emily: Okay.
Lauren: And so when people think tradition, it represents familiarity, repetition, a return to something safe that you know, and so in the context of an adaptation from book to film, tradition would be the book itself. The thing with tradition is it also implies that something is unchanging and can be perceived as a bit rigid.
And so when you are going into the process of either creating or viewing an adaptation, I think readers of that source material are looking for tradition. They're looking for something to be exactly like the book that they know and that they love because that's safe and that's familiar and that's what they want.
That's where their comfort zone is. And that's what they're expecting because that's the original source. So for many people, the adaptation should be as by the numbers, close to the book itself as possible. And there are really good movies that have been made by like that paint by numbers approach.
You just like, be as close to the book as possible. I have also been that person where I'm like, no, it needs to be 100% like the book or nothing. I will say that specifically, because I know there are people who will [00:28:00] call me out if I critique that and be like, weren't you? Yes, I was. And we are moving on.
Emily: We contain multitudes.
Lauren: You know, everyone grows and changes as a person. And I also understand where that point of view comes from, because if there's a book that is very close to your heart that's being adapted into a movie or a TV show, you wanna see all the emotional beats and things that you care about represented on screen.
So heard. Totally get it. However, there are also beautiful films, TV shows, whatever that have been created that are so wonderful because they're breaking tradition. Either because they slightly alter the story to fit the new medium. Sometimes that's dropping characters. Sometimes that's shifting a plot line a little bit, because if you only have a two hour runtime, massive books do not fit into two hours.
So you kind of by necessity have to change the plot so that it's still comprehensible to whoever is viewing the movie that you've created. Or because they put a fresh spin on things or just because they're bucking the traditional idea of what a period film is, in the case of something like a Jane Austen adaptation.
So two examples of movies that I think either did this well, or did this poorly. One that I think did this well related to this is Emma 2020. So I think. It has the essence of the book, which satisfies purists. So they really didn't mess with the plot at all. The characters are all people who we know and recognize, they feel familiar to us and they feel like the traditional representations of those characters, but the cinematography, the humor, and like some of the visual gags, the overall tone doesn't match the traditional idea of a period film with heavy air quotes, because you know, like what is a traditional period film, but whatever.
There's a certain image that comes to mind when people think of what a traditional period piece is. And it's a bit stuffier than what Emma 2020 is. And it recognizes that and is poking fun at it the entire time, while also being very true to the source material. So recognizing tradition while breaking it simultaneously.
One I did not think did this very well was uh, Persuasion. That just came out this [00:30:00] summer. Hence the hot take. Which is a, an opinion that most people I think agree with, but it was just a source of much contention online and discussion.
Emily: This is Lauren's opinion. I have not seen the movie.
Lauren: Yes.
Emily: And I haven't read persuasion yet.
Lauren: Yes. And so this is an opinion that is purposely given without spoilers. I think they tried to do something similar to Emma 2020, and they bucked tradition in ways that I really enjoyed. So I liked the casting. I thought the colorblind casting was really great. It added something new just to the landscape of the movie and to period films, just in general, because as we've talked about multiple times in this podcast, hello, people of color still existed in the 19th century, we were still there.
I liked the Fleabag tone and the asides. I think that part is a hot take because there are a lot of people who just did not care for that at all. I liked it. I, I'm here for like, a more sardonic character. I didn't really think that that was a big deal. However, I think that my interpretation of the movie was rather than understanding, and revering what they were poking fun of in terms of a traditional period piece, they were making a period film for people who don't like period films and not taking into account that in order to really break tradition in a way that makes sense, you also have to know and understand the tradition.
It's like in a writing class. When you say, you know, you have to learn all the grammatical rules before you can break them so that you break them intentionally and in a way that makes sense. You also have to know and understand period films before you break tradition in a way that makes sense.
And there are lots of things about Persuasion that I felt didn't trust the audience to understand what it was that they were trying to do, and was either spoonfeeding things or willfully misinterpreting the whole essence of the book in order to get at a story that they thought audiences would like, rather than trusting that the audience for that film would be there with the original message of the text.
It's like, okay. When I think about tradition and pop culture, what do I think about, because I think there's something to be said for [00:32:00] people who feel very strongly about the essence of a source material, and really just want to see that represented on screen. And then you take that tradition too far, sometimes, and it becomes too rigid in which you don't allow any other interpretations of that source material.
And that's when you get people who complain about any small deviation from the text, and then all of a sudden this adaptation is worthless. People who aren't happy about changing the race of characters and, you know, there's a whole other like racist subtext to that that we won't get into. But, you know, people who don't wanna see any kind of change or nuance, because it's not how it was in the book and restrict that kind of creative freedom that makes things so good.
However, creative freedom, doesn't always mean you have a good final end product. So that's what I was thinking of as far as tradition goes, looking at adaptations of period pieces, and then a good example of how you can do it well. And an example of maybe where you missed the mark a little bit.
Emily: That was great. Thank you.
Lauren: Thank you.
Emily: I, I really don't understand the whole, this is an X film for people who don't like X genre. Like, why are you trying to make a period film for people who don't like period films? Like they're not gonna like it regardless.
Lauren: Right.
Emily: And then the people who do like it, aren't going to appreciate what you've done.
Lauren: No.
Emily: Yeah. It, from, from the discussion I've seen, it does seem like they missed the mark on what Persuasion was trying to do.
Lauren: Yeah. I think there were many elements of the movie that I like. And I re-- I went into it like, really wanting to like the movie. And then I just didn't.
Emily: That was fun. There's so much to consider when it comes to adaptation and trying to balance tradition with innovation and especially just moving between media types.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Like you said, you know, an entire book like Emma, you can't get every single [00:34:00] thing because that would just on its own be a bad movie.
Lauren: Right.
Emily: Because it wouldn't fit the medium.
Lauren: Like, imagine if you just lifted the dialogue from Emma with no cuts, no changes whatsoever. Just put it in script format, added some screen directions, and then you'd film that movie. That would be terrible.
Emily: So bad.
Lauren: That'd be awful.
Emily: Yeah. Like of course my mind always automatically goes to Lord of the Rings. Like if you just made a shot for shot of the books, it would be absolutely awful.
Lauren: Unwatchable.
Emily: Completely unwatchable.
Lauren: That would be--
Emily: I say this as someone who really loves the extended editions.
Lauren: I was about to say one movie would be as long as the entire trilogy.
Emily: Yeah, it would.
Lauren: Sometimes change is good.
Emily: Especially when it comes to adapting between media.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Changes have to be made. If you want perfect, flawless, unchanged Emma, just the way you remember it. Go reread the book.
Lauren: That sounds like a perfect segue into a nice little pithy final takeaway.
Emily: Perfect. You're up first for takeaways today.
Lauren: I think I already said mine, which is that sometimes change is good. But I don't know that that's really a, a final takeaway for the entire section.
Maybe my actual final takeaway, when I think about the events of these five chapters, would be to recognize others' humanity and that there is a world outside of yourself. And that is not just for people who are, you know, like on Emma's level of conceit and narcissism, but that sometimes we get so wrapped up in ourselves and our own problems that we just forget about the emotions of other people. Or in a more positive sense, if there's something that you're really embarrassed about, because you're convinced that everyone saw you trip over that crack in the sidewalk, they probably didn't cause everybody else is just as wrapped up in their internal worlds as you are.
It's fine. Like no one is really paying that much attention to you.
Emily: No one thinks about you as much as you think they think about you.
Lauren: Exactly. That's my takeaway.
Emily: Excellent. [00:36:00]
Lauren: What is your final takeaway?
Emily: Hmm. Related to yours, I think mine is that we don't need to try and mold people into what we want them to be. Talking directly to Emma here. Leave Harriet alone. Just let her be.
Lauren: Amen. Cosign.
Emily: Perfect. Shall we pull our tarot card?
Lauren: We shall. Am I pulling or are you pulling?
Emily: It's you.
Lauren: Oh, yay. Four of clubs.
Emily: Four of clubs is stability.
Lauren: Ooh.
Emily: The image is four bonnets and the description is, 'a set of well trimmed bonnets speaks of one's wealth and status.' Very relevant for Emma.
Lauren: Oh, perfect.
Emily: That should be a lot of fun to do.
Lauren: Thank you for joining us in this episode of Reclaiming Jane. Next time we'll be reading chapters 11 through 15 of Emma with a focus on stability.
Emily: To read our show notes and a transcript of this episode, check out our website, reclaimingjanepod.com, where you can also find the full back catalog and links to our social media.
Lauren: If you'd like to support us and get access to exclusive content, including special Patron-only events, you can join our Patreon @ReclaimingJanePod.
Emily: Reclaiming jane is produced and co-hosted by Lauren Wethers and Emily Davis-Hale. Our music is by Latasha Bundy and our show art is by Emily Davis-Hale.
Lauren: We'll see you next time nerds.[00:38:00]
Emily: Also another little fun fact that I found. Because of course there was a lot of like, loss of the learning and arts that were perpetuated through these religious houses. One priory, Worcester Priory, had 600 books at the time of dissolution. And just like in the perspective of the way that our valuation of that kind of material has changed.
I have like 300 books in my house. Like personally.
Lauren: Yeah.
Emily: I was just seeing that number was like 600?
Lauren: I was about to ask what happened to those books. I was worried with where that sentence was going. I was like, oh no, don't tell me that they threw them all into a fire. And they were gone.
Emily: I mean, a lot of them were presumably destroyed or they were redistributed somewhere else. It's kind of hard to know, but yeah.
Lauren: Yeah, no, that's such, if I hadn't, each time I've moved, I've culled my book collection and donated a lot. If I had not moved twice in like the past five years, I would certainly have 300 books in this house.
Emily: Yeah. Books are one of those things that I can't get rid of. I, I'm a little bit of a hoarder, but definitely when it comes to books. So between just, you know, my fun reading books and all of the ones that I've accumulated during grad school, it's. You know, I've got a monastic library in there now.
Lauren: Casual.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: Yep.