Emma 1-5: “Make An Effort”

Listen on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Anchor | Breaker | Castbox | Overcast | Pocket Casts | Radio Public

Don’t see your platform of choice? Click play above!

Come along on our Season 4 kickoff! We're delighted to be getting started with Emma this time – although delight isn't the only emotion our heroine provokes.

Show Notes

Welcome, welcome, welcome…to season 4 of Reclaiming Jane and a brand new book! We are so excited to be starting a book that’s both a fandom favorite and full of joy. It is very nice to have that trademark Austen snark back on the page, which you will probably hear us say multiple times throughout this season.

A massive thank you to everyone who has supported us long enough to get to our fourth Austen novel. Every download, every tweet, and every reaction shared really means a lot. We’re so proud of this little community and we can’t wait to embark on a new journey with all of you.

Transcript

Reclaiming Jane S4E1 | Emma 1-5: “Make An Effort”

Emily: [00:00:00] This is Reclaiming Jane, an Austen podcast for fans on the margins.

Lauren: I'm Lauren Wethers,

Emily: and I'm Emily Davis-Hale.

Lauren: And today we're reading chapters one through five of Emma through the theme of effort.

Emily: I am so excited to start Emma, especially after the downer that was Mansfield Park.

Lauren: Emma's such a delight. I'm really excited for Emma.

Emily: Yeah. We are back in territory where I'm spoiled for it. I have not read all of Emma before. I read the first few chapters, I think years ago. But I have seen the 2020 movie twice because my mom and I watched it this weekend.

Lauren: Oh nice.

Emily: I was like, yeah, we're about to start reading it, but I've already seen this movie. So like, whatever.

Lauren: We watched that together using, like, the Amazon Prime watch feature, like during the pandemic.

Emily: Yeah. Before the podcast was ever a thing.

Lauren: Just us being the regular nerds that we are.

Emily: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We accept this, we embrace it.

Lauren: Which is why the podcast became a thing.

Emily: Exactly.

Lauren: I think too, we were talking about how some of the characters in Mansfield Park are unlikeable. And even though Emma can sometimes be frustrating, the vibes are so different that it, it won't be a similar reading experience.

Emily: Hopefully it won't be a chore. I mean--

Lauren: I don't think so.

Emily: Even in these first few chapters, it's just so much more fun.

So I think it's also going to be a delightful [00:02:00] little experience to get to read this. We have like all of the Austen humor back that I think we missed in Mansfield Park.

Lauren: 100%. I'm, I'm really excited for Emma. I really like this book.

Emily: Well I'm glad that you like it so much because you get to do our inaugural recap.

Lauren: Yay.

Emily: Little more enthusiasm, try that again.

Lauren: Yay!

Emily: Perfect. All right, Lauren, are you ready for our first recap of Emma?

Lauren: I sincerely hope so.

Emily: All right. Three, two, one. Go.

Lauren: Okay. Emma Woodhouse, who's a very rich, very spoiled woman, who has lost her companion, her governess slash best friend just got married. And it's a tragedy because now who is she going to talk to?

Luckily for Emma, there is a new girl who has come to town, who is an illegitimate child of somebody who seems to be a gentleman. And so Emma takes her on as her personal project and she's very excited to get matchmaking and make sure that Harriet has the best life that she possibly can have. Mr. Knightley is also available and he does not like Emma. That's not true!

Emily: Too late, too late. Your recap has to end at he does not like Emma.

Lauren: No!

Emily: That was your 30 seconds up.

Lauren: I should have just said Mr. Knightley is there and then just shut up.

Emily: You know, that that would be par for the course with our recaps.

Lauren: Dang it. Ugh. Okay. It started off so strong and then it just went off the rails. Okay.

Emily: That's how it goes.

Lauren: That's-- you know, sometimes it's how the cookie crumbles.

Emily: C'est la vie.

Lauren: Emily, are you ready for your own thirty-second recap?

Emily: I sure hope so.

Lauren: I mean, I have already set the bar quite low, so. Okay. 30 seconds on the clock.

Emily: Yes.

Lauren: 3, 2, 1. Go.

Emily: All right. We meet a ton of people. First up is Emma Woodhouse and her father.

We also meet her former governess, the former gov-- former governess' new husband, Emma's neighbor Knightley and a bunch of assorted people from the village. Emma's greatest, most favorite activities in life are meddling and keeping her father happy. She meets a new friend slash charity [00:04:00] case Harriet Smith, who is someone's natural daughter. Harriet is crushing on a cute farmer, but Emma is setting her sights on the vicar for her.

Lauren: Beautiful. Well done. You got two seconds left. Look at all this stuff you crammed in.

Emily: Oh my God. This is the beauty of taking notes while I'm reading.

Lauren: Oh, see, I should start that.

Emily: Yeah. If anyone's noticed a, a significant increase in the quality of my recaps it's because I started writing down what happens.

Lauren: That feels like cheating.

Emily: It feels a little bit like cheating, but you know what? I have too many things in my brain right now, so I'm gonna forgive myself for that.

Lauren: Fair enough. Fair enough. If you've noticed a significant decrease in the quality of my recaps, it's because I don't write anything down.

Emily: Oh, well this was, I don't know if I wanna call it like a memorable opening for a book, but it, it makes an impact.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Because we learn right away that Emma Woodhouse is handsome, clever, and rich, and that she gives herself a lot of credit for being those things. We learn about her relationship with her father, who is the most delightful word, a valetudinarian.

Lauren: I love that so much.

Emily: Which I had to look up. It's basically someone who's really obsessed with their own health. Not quite the same as a hypochondriac, who always believes that they're sick, but someone who's always trying to keep themselves healthy. So that was like, I had to do a little Google in the first couple of pages. It was great.

Lauren: Learning new words with Jane Austen.

Emily: Yes.

Lauren: Yeah. I really loved all of the character introductions that we get. And one of the things that I think Jane Austen does really well is to create such vivid pictures of these people in our minds without needing too many sentences or too much detail, like with, with choice words, like valetudinarian, which, who had even heard of that word before? But with, with choice, words or descriptions, she gets across who these people are really concisely and perfectly. And that's so [00:06:00] difficult to do and she does it so well, like in the course of these five chapters, I feel like I know, especially who Emma is as a character, I can see both her virtues and her flaws and how she interacts with other people and even how other people interact with her and get different pictures of her from Miss Taylor or from Mr. Knightley. And that is just excellent writing, which is no surprise because who do we have a podcast about? But I just feel like it needs to be highlighted.

Emily: One of my favorite things, which is maybe a little bit tangential to what you said, but still just so illustrative of like the mindset around the thing is the description of Mrs. Goddard's school. "Where a reasonable quantity of accomplishments were sold at a reasonable price and where girls might be sent to be out of the way and scramble themselves into a little education without any danger of coming back prodigies." Just, what a beautiful way to say that. She could have said it was like, mediocre, but well respected, but no, that was so excellent.

And so... such a moment of there's the humor.

Lauren: Mm-hmm. Or even little things, like how we've already established on very early pages that Emma's father is maybe too preoccupied with his health and what he puts into his body, but getting the little pieces of dialogue where he is also trying to... not police, but lightly suggest what people should or should not be eating at a dinner party where, you know, the, the goal is supposed to be, you know, eat, drink, be Merry, have as much as you'd like, I'm going to be an excellent host.

And he's saying actually, maybe don't-- mm, have a little bit of the apple tart. Not a lot. Maybe try a bite. That's enough. Maybe have a little bit of this. Are you sure you wouldn't just like some gruel?

Emily: I think I laughed out loud when he said I don't recommend the custard. This is going to be such a cast of characters. I can already tell.

Lauren: Now that Emma 2020 has come out. I can't not picture Bill Nighy in my mind whenever I think of Mr. Woodhouse.

Emily: He's just so excellent.

Lauren: [00:08:00] He's perfect. That's the only way I can think of him now.

Emily: Absolutely. Yeah. I was a little concerned going into this, especially having watched the movie over the weekend, that I was only going to be able to see those interpretations--

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: And be judging the book through that. But I don't know, in his case, especially, I feel like that's not a bad thing.

Lauren: Not really, no.

Emily: So moving right along, I guess, should we give the rundown of what all happens in these chapters?

Lauren: I think we should just in case, you know, sometimes it's been a hot minute since people have read Emma. And it might be helpful to give a little bit more, more context.

Emily: So the very first thing that is happening is Miss Taylor, Emma's former governess and a longtime friend is getting married to a gentleman of the neighborhood. Mr. Weston.

Lauren: And Emma is convinced that she has brought this match about. To hear Mr. Knightley tell it all she did, most likely, was just think to herself, 'man, wouldn't they be an excellent match.'

And then sit back and take credit for the fact that they actually do get married. Emma says no, no, no, no, no, no. I did think that they would be an excellent match. However. You did not witness all the times that I had a well-placed sentence here and there to encourage conversation or brought them together at gatherings at our household.

So I truly can take credit for this match. And Mr. Knightley is looking at her like, yeah. Okay. Girl, if you say so.

Emily: But Miss Taylor is married. She seems to be delightfully happy. Emma is very happy for her. Of course, very proud of herself.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: For her success in making the match happen.

Lauren: Mr. Woodhouse thinks it's a tragedy.

Emily: Mr. Woodhouse--

Lauren: --saying poor Miss Taylor as though she's not incandescently happy to be married.

Emily: oh, Mr. Woodhouse. I think, I think Billy Nighy's interpretation is also probably going to make me more charitable towards Mr. Woodhouse.

Lauren: Mm.

Emily: Because he has such an energy in that performance that I'm, I'm probably projecting a little of it into the book, but again, I don't really mind.

Lauren: Anything that elevates the reading [00:10:00] experience that was already going to be fun can only be a good thing.

Emily: Definitely. Yeah.

So Miss Taylor is gone all of a half-mile walk and Emma and Mr. Woodhouse are bereft of her company, but they don't seem to be lacking for companions. Mr. Knightley comes to visit them like that very same evening. He comes over from Donwell Abbey, which is his home in the next parish.

And then very soon after they have a whole gaggle of people that they've invited up from the village. There is Mrs. and Miss Bates.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: The elderly woman and her single daughter. Mrs. Goddard, who runs the school. Mr. Elton, who is the vicar in town.

Lauren: I think while they have all these people with whom they can surround themselves, the sticking point is that they're definitely the highest social status family in the town.

And since now it's only two of them because Emma's mother died when she was very young and her older sister has also already been married and has moved away. So there's really only the two of them that are of their social sphere who are in Highbury.

Emily: Yeah, I realized during that passage about how well established they are at Highbury and how high status they are. Emma is our first Austen protagonist who's really, like, top of the social heap.

Lauren: Mm-hmm. And has the pride to match, but also has the wit to back it up, which I think is a topic of conversation between Mr. Knightley and Miss Taylor is that she's proud because she is so smart and because she doesn't have people to check her because Miss Taylor certainly wasn't, they were really more friends than a governess-student relationship, especially towards the end. And her father absolutely dotes on her and thinks that she is the best thing to ever walk the earth.

And so Mr. Knightley is the only one who really ever puts her in check, but because she has the intelligence and the wit and the beauty, she doesn't really see why she should ever be put in check because to her, she is the full package. So what could she possibly be saying wrong?

Emily: She is a big [00:12:00] fish in a little pond.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Everyone in town thinks that she is exactly what she says. Handsome, clever, and rich.

Lauren: What else could you want?

Emily: What else could you want? Look, I would also love to be handsome, clever and rich. So in one of these little gatherings that Emma arranges, it seems mostly for the benefit of her father who needs some social engagement.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: But he, he doesn't go anywhere. He, he does not leave Hartfield.

Lauren: Even the half mile to Miss Taylor is entirely too far to walk, and they can't get out the horses for that short distance. So she's removed from him forever.

Emily: I hate how much I relate to Mr. Woodhouse's reasoning. Like when they're talking about picking up the ladies from Highbury to bring them to dinner about how, because it's something that they do frequently, it must be no trouble for their Coachmen and for the horses. But if it only happened once a year, that would just be too much, even if it were exactly the same trip. Like, oh, oh, that's my brain too. I'm in this picture and I don't like it.

Lauren: I was just about to say that.

Emily: Anyway, the direction I was going before.

One of these gatherings, Mrs. Goddard, who runs the school asks if she can bring this student of hers, Harriet Smith, who apparently has been at the school for several years, but was recently elevated to the status of parlor border, which I assume means that there's just more money going into the school.

So she gets a better room or something. Do you have an explanation?

Lauren: I do. So a parlor border was the student at a boarding school who, in exchange for higher tuition, lived with the family rather than in a dormitory and enjoyed a range of other privileges, not shared by her classmates. So Harriet is now a cut above the other students.

The more you know. Thank you, annotated Emma.

Emily: Yay. But Harriet is also a natural child, which means she was born out of wedlock to someone. Presumably, her father has some kind of means.

Lauren: Mm-hmm. [00:14:00]

Emily: Well, we assume it's her father who is paying for her tuition at the school and who maybe has increased his fortune a little bit recently to elevate her to parlor border.

But Mrs. Goddard asks if she can bring Harriet with her to Hartfield, to be sort of socialized and in better company. And Emma thinks this is a great idea.

Lauren: She says, fantastic new project. I'm going to make you into the most perfect gentleman's daughter the world has ever seen, despite the fact that you kind of aren't.

Emily: She's also just decided that Harriet is a gentleman's daughter.

Lauren: Yes. Yeah.

Emily: She just says it like it's fact and everyone believes her.

Lauren: Because it's Emma.

Emily: Because it's Emma.

Lauren: She has decided as well that she is going to now turn her matchmaking talents to Harriet. Because if you can't be a legitimate gentleman's daughter, why not marry into the nobility instead?

Emily: Or something close to it.

Lauren: You know, something that's appropriate to your station, but also elevates you just a tad. Enough to be in Emma's social circle.

Emily: Right. Emma is very calculated about social standing. She has performed all of this kind of social calculus about who is worthy of her notice and what kind of notice, who is beneath it, who doesn't even figure in, which is where poor Harriet and her sweet little summer crush come in, because Harriet has spent the summer with some... a nearby farming family, they're tenants of Mr. Knightley's. The daughters had also attended Mrs. Goddard's school and Harriet spent a blissful few months with the Martins and has just the most adorable crush on the son, Robert.

Lauren: And Emma will hear nothing of it. She doesn't know who this person is. He of course knows who she is. And she may have seen him in town at some point, just not known who he was, but she's very pointed about the fact that no, not in, [00:16:00] not within my social circle, not somebody who I feel like associating with or who I even need to take notice of and just says that all very matter of factly to Harriet.

And since Emma doesn't want to take notice of him, nor should Harriet.

Emily: Emma definitely divides people into those that she can help. And those that she can't.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: So she has been useful in her framework to Mrs. Weston.

Lauren: AKA Miss Taylor.

Emily: Who is now married with her lovely husband, they seem to be very happy.

But now, like you said before, she has a new project and it's Harriet because that's, that's where Harriet falls in the calculus. But the Martins are neither high enough to be actually within her social circle or low enough to need her help. And so she just kind of erases them completely. She's like, you know, tries to write it off as, oh, I'm sure they're perfectly fine.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: But she can't have anything to do with them directly. And so they just kind of don't exist for her and therefore they should not exist for Harriet.

Lauren: Exactly. Do as I say, and do as I do.

Emily: This is also in the discussion about Robert Martin, where we get, I think, a first glimpse of Emma, just kind of being a bitch. When she and Harriet are walking along the road and they unexpectedly run into Mr. Martin. Harriet has a little conversation with him and then catches back up with Emma, asks what she thought. And they had agreed that Mr. Martin was kind of plain looking, which bless his heart. But then Emma says "I had no idea that he could be so very clownish, so totally without air."

Lauren: And after saying, "I had no right to expect much and I did not expect much. And he didn't meet even my lowered expectations." And poor Harriet's mortified.

Emily: So mortified. I'm just, I'm so glad that Robert Martin didn't hear that because I can only imagine-- my vision of him is also very affected by Emma 2020, because he's so perfectly adorable in that. But this is just [00:18:00] so mean. He's a farmer, he's a tenant farmer.

What, like he has a flock of sheep. What do you want from this man?

Lauren: Let the poor man live.

Emily: Please! He's done literally nothing wrong.

Lauren: I think that that social calculus and her selective kindness though, I think is a great segue into talking about effort, too. And all the effort she puts into monitoring and planning every social interaction that she has.

All of these themes are so broadly interpreted that we could really make anything out of them, but it was so interesting to me seeing how effort showed up in these pages from the first one in how she meddles and manipulates people, in how she decides who is worthy of her attention and who is not, even in how she manages her dad and his expectations.

Cuz she's constantly putting effort even into the smallest things so that she can get what she wants out of him and also make sure that he is content and isn't going to cause any issues.

Emily: It's funny that you put it that way with the constant effort that Emma is making, because my very first impression theme-wise was that Emma doesn't actually know what effort is.

She's never had to make a true effort in her life. Things just sort of coalesce around her because she has the status that she does, which she didn't do any work to accomplish.

Lauren: Yeah.

Emily: She also has no idea what consequences are.

Lauren: No, none.

Emily: I, I suspect we'll be seeing that crashing down on her at some point.

Lauren: Most likely. Yeah. Yeah. Robert Martin's idea of effort and Emma's idea of effort are two completely different things.

Emily: Neither of them would have any idea what the other was talking about if they tried to define their kind of work as effort.

Lauren: Mm-mm. That's such a good point where I was looking at the effort into her social interactions, but also she does not have to put in any effort into her life at all.

She doesn't have to work, by definition. She never will. She always have people to do the work for her.

Emily: Even within Emma's own social class, there is a definite disconnect of understanding of [00:20:00] what effort is because Mr. Knightley challenges her when she tries to give herself credit for accomplishing something and bringing the Westons together.

And when she congratulates herself on her success, he says, "success supposes endeavor." Which I, of course, read as Mr. Knightley being like, get a job.

Lauren: Pretty much. Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Lauren: These lazy millennials, never want to do any work these days. That's a general-- generational gap talking. Mr. Knightley said back in my day, you know, rich people had to put in a little bit of effort to be able to say that we were a success.

Emily: I mean, to be fair to her, Emma is doing all the work of running a household.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Which is a significant managerial undertaking. So she, she I'll give her a little credit for that. But in setting up the Westons, maybe not so much.

Lauren: Mr. Knightley's just a hater. Just because Emma looks good while doing work doesn't mean she's not doing work.

Emily: Incredible. Mr. Knightley is a hater.

Lauren: I mean he's right, but he's still a hater.

Emily: Two things can both be true at the same time.

Lauren: Exactly.

Emily: I think that's basically all that I had on my mind about effort.

Lauren: I think those are really the, the high points. The last thing I'll say about Emma's, Emma's lack of effort is in the conversation with Mr. Knightley and Mrs. Weston in chapter five, where they're discussing, of course, Emma, and you know, Mrs. Weston is saying, 'Harriet and Emma will read together. I, she means it. I know it this time.'

And Mr. Knightley says, "Emma's been meaning to read more ever since she was 12 years old. I've seen a great many lists of her drawing up at various times of books that she meant to read regularly through. And very good lists they were, very well chosen and very neatly arranged, sometimes alphabetically and sometimes by some other role, the list she drew up when only 14, I remember thinking it did her judgment so much credit that I preserved it sometime. And I dare say she may have made out a very good list now. But I have done with expecting any course of steady reading from Emma. She will never [00:22:00] submit to anything requiring industry and patience and a subjection of the fancy to the understanding. Where Miss Taylor failed to stimulate I may safely affirm that Harriet Smith will do nothing."

Emily: I gotta say, as a graduate student, that hit a little too close to home.

Lauren: The reading list?

Emily: Yeah. But yes, we definitely have some, some disparities, some disagreements here about what constitutes effort.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: And, and accomplishment.

Lauren: Yes. So speaking of different interpretations and views of effort, what is your historical context for today?

Emily: That is --actually the way you phrased that segue is really beautiful.

Lauren: Oh, beautiful.

Emily: Because I was thinking about the effort that Mr. Woodhouse goes to, to maintain his health. And I did a little bit of research into what medicine looked like during the Regency era.

Lauren: Oh, excellent. I can't wait.

Emily: Yes. So I think I forgot to say this at the beginning, but just, reminder or information for anyone who didn't know, Emma was published in 1815, which is like the heart of the Regency era, which is still at the end of the Georgian period and still influenced by the Enlightenment.

But medicine was lagging a little behind like, philosophy, because they were still clinging to a lot of ideas that we saw, like throughout the Renaissance and the medieval period, and even ancient ideas of like the four humors. That's still a lot of what medicine was based on. So when it comes down to like a medical hierarchy, you had doctors got the most respect. Doctors, physicians.

Surgeons were a rung down. They were trained by apprenticeship rather than in a formal university setting. It was still sort of the barber-surgeon thing where--

Lauren: oh, I see.

Emily: Where doctors don't get their hands dirty, surgeons very much do. And then the bottom rung are apothecaries, who are most equivalent to modern pharmacists who are sort of dispensing the drugs that [00:24:00] theoretically a physician would prescribe, but often they just give their own medical advice.

There really wasn't the same stratification of care that we see today, where the more money you have, the better you get. It just kind of depended on where you were and who was available at the time. So if you were in a large city like London, there are gonna be a lot more physicians around, but as we have already seen, Mr. Woodhouse relies on Mr. Perry, the apothecary, which is a delightful little rhyming name and occupation there.

Lauren: I love that.

Emily: And because so many foundational medical discoveries that we rely on today, like germ theory and washing your hands weren't in common practice then, medicine itself was really hit or miss.

So even a practitioner with a good reputation would have a very mixed record because they're just kind of throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Social recommendation was often the most likely reason that you would seek out a specific person. If someone in your social group says, Hey, I really like this person, they cured my 'insert malady here,' then you might go to them for either the same thing or a different thing. But self-treatment was also really common. There were all kinds of recipes published in newspapers and journals and books about medicines that you could make at home and take care of your own family.

That was one of those things that often like, housewives were expected to have a little bit of knowledge about is, you know, slapping a salve on the burn that your child got over the open stove.

Lauren: Just add it to the list.

Emily: Add it to the list. It seems from the couple of sources I saw that valetudinarians like Mr. Woodhouse were generally just kind of humored, probably even more so if they were rich like him. They were treated with just social visits by their medical provider [00:26:00] or with a little harmless concoctions that kind of served more as distraction than as actual care.

There was one quote from a doctor near the same period who basically recommended, like, just give 'em a bunch of things to like keep 'em busy during the day. If they have to take a bunch of medicines at all different times, they'll keep track of that. They won't think so much about their health, which is a little bit hilarious. But then again, because there was still that lingering belief in things like the four humors, there was a lot of the same kind of thing we see Mr. Woodhouse doing with food as medicine because the qualities of the food were linked to the humors and could therefore affect the balance in your body. So it is a very, very different medical landscape from what we have today. Science is not quite there in terms of practical application. You know, people weren't washing their hands until the end of the century.

So it's... I have said this 500 million times on this podcast already, it was sort of a transitional time. The knowledge was growing, but it was not in practice yet for the vast majority of people. And so you relied on whoever was nearby. You relied on whoever had a reputation for being, if not effective then at least, like, personable. And you just kind of did what you could with the resources you had. So that's, that was where, where my mind went. That was what I wanted to look into because Mr. Woodhouse is so fascinating.

Lauren: I love that. Thank you.

Emily: You're so welcome.

Lauren: That's such a good connection.

Emily: What did you have for pop culture for us today?

Lauren: So I was thinking about effort and self-improvement in a way, like improving other people. And when I put those together, I think of the makeover reality TV shows that have become quite popular. [00:28:00] So what comes to mind first for me is Queer Eye. Since I think that's one of the more well-known shows now, it's also currently filming in New Orleans.

So it's top of mind because Tan and Antoni keep showing up around New Orleans looking cute together, which is so ridiculous that I keep seeing my friends meeting them. And I have not yet. Anyway, it's fine. I'm not bitter. But Queer Eye is, for those of you who don't know, the most current iteration is a reboot of what was Queer Eye for the straight guy, like in the early two thousands.

And now it is just Queer Eye for anyone. That's on Netflix with a group of five queer people who will choose a different hero each episode and revamp their life, both in creating an outward appearance that brings them more confidence and satisfaction in their appearance, in revamping their house or a different physical space in which they spend a lot of time.

So most of the time it's their, their home, but other times it's been community centers or churches where the person works that actually need a lot of love. And doing all of this both internal and external work to help them be the best versions of themselves. And I think Queer Eye is a really positive example of that kind of self-improvement show.

But I think earlier iterations, veer more towards what Emma is doing with Harriet, where it's exploitative and a little bit condescending. Queer Eye, I think has managed to strike a good note where they're working with the, the hero of the episode to create a journey for them that feels natural. As natural as you can be in a reality TV show, that's still going to be, you know, some-- it is by nature produced and somewhat scripted.

Other shows, like Extreme Makeover or What Not to Wear or shows in that vein, are more of the experts coming in to tell you everything you're doing wrong in your life. And we are going to fix you because you're a product that needs to be fixed rather than you are somebody who we can bring on [00:30:00] a journey of attaining deeper self love.

We're not fixing you, we're just helping you see what's already there. And that distinction is so important. And what I appreciate from Queer Eye that was lacking, especially from that early two thousands reality TV that almost invited the audience to laugh at the subject rather than root for them on this journey.

It was, 'look at all the things that they've been doing wrong and shouldn't they be grateful that these TV show hosts have ascended from the heavens to correct and fix them,' which is kind of the energy that I'm getting from Emma.

Emily: Definitely the energy I get from Emma.

Lauren: When I was thinking about effort and improvement, that's exactly what I think of in like, that pop culture iteration is the specific genre of experts in a certain field coming to tell you everything you're doing wrong about your life under the guise of making you better. When was there anything that needed to be fixed or improved about you in the first place?

It's just, it's a tricky line to walk in that genre. And I think that Queer Eye does it very well. Probably because they had so many poor examples to look at before.

Emily: I love that. That's so fun to look at what Emma does and how she could actually do some good if she would approach it in a different way.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Emily: But she's clearly not doing that.

Lauren: There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to help people, but it does become problematic when you have that condescending, paternalistic tone or approach to trying to help people.

Emily: Definitely.

Lauren: And you strip them entirely of their own agency, which you can already see Emma doing with Harriet in, 'you don't get to make your choice of, I think Robert Martin is a lovely person. I've decided that he's not for you. So cease all interactions immediately. Thank you.'

Emily: So sad. Justice for Robert Martin.

Lauren: Justice for Robert Martin. Oh, Emma, she's gonna be a trip.

Emily: She really [00:32:00] is.

Lauren: That is all that I had for, for pop culture connection. Do we wanna move to final takeaways?

Emily: Yeah. Once again, I've forgotten that we do final takeaways.

Lauren: I believe it is your turn to go first. So that just makes it even better because I recapped first. So it's all you, my friend.

Emily: I think my takeaway, which is extremely general, is that you can't expect other people, even if they're close to you, to have the same perspective on things as you.

Lauren: Mm. Okay. I like it. I like it.

Emily: What is your takeaway?

Lauren: Listen to other people because they are the best authority on their own experiences. Not you.

Emily: Mr. Woodhouse, please believe Miss Taylor when she says that she's happy.

Lauren: Just because you are sad that she has left doesn't mean that she is crying her eyes out, that she has now left old maid status and gotten married.

Emily: Master projection there.

Lauren: Oh my goodness.

Emily: Well, shall we pull our tarot card for next time?

Lauren: We shall. It is your turn to pull a card.

Emily: Delightful. Let's go with this one, five of diamonds. The Hierophant.

Lauren: Five of diamonds is tradition. And wouldn't you know, it, we have a character from Emma as the artwork on the card. Frank Churchill in Emma is a member of the landed gentry, but things on the surface are not always what they seem.

Emily: Woo. Alright. So our theme for next time is tradition.

Lauren: I'm excited. I'm always excited for the theme, but I, oh. So much you can do with tradition.

Emily: I can't wait to see how it goes. This was a fun, first episode, starting a new book is always a little nerve-wracking.

Lauren: Yeah.

Emily: But also it's a new adventure.

Lauren: New things.

Emily: Yes.

Lauren: Yay. This will be... I'm so looking forward to this season.

Emily: Me too.[00:34:00]

Lauren: Thank you for joining us in this episode of Reclaiming Jane. Next time we'll be reading chapters six through 10 of Emma with a focus on tradition.

Emily: To read our show notes and a transcript of this episode, check out our website, reclaimingjanepod.com, where you can also find the full back catalog and links to our social media.

Lauren: If you'd like to support us and gain access to exclusive content, you can join our Patreon at Reclaiming Jane Pod.

Emily: Reclaiming Jane is produced and co-hosted by Lauren Wethers and Emily Davis-Hale. Our music is by LaTasha Bundy and our show art is by Emily Davis-Hale.

Lauren: See you next time nerds.

Emily: I was also, knowing what happens in the end, a little taken aback by the fact that Emma is not quite 21. And Knightley is 37 or 38.

Lauren: I was wondering if you were gonna bring up that age gap.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Some of these men have just really questionable decision-making skills. That's--

Lauren: and has known her since she was a child.

Emily: And has known her since she was a child. Like Colonel Brandon/Marianne was also, I mean, he was literally twice her age. Had only known her for a little while.

Lauren: Right.

Emily: It's even more suspicious when Knightley has known her since she was a child.

Lauren: Yeah...

Emily: anyway!

Lauren: I have nothing to really rebut that with.

Emily: Yeah.