Pride and Prejudice 26-30: “We Got Family”
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I don't got friends. I got FAMILY. In this week's episode, Emily and Lauren talk about families we choose and families we don't. Also included: prudent decisions, the Fast & Furious franchise, and a certain Miss Bennet at Rosings Park.
Links to topics discussed in this episode:
Transcript
Reclaiming Jane S2E6 | Pride and Prejudice 26-30: “We Got Family”
Emily: [00:00:00] This is Reclaiming Jane, an Austen podcast for fans on the margins.
Lauren: I'm Lauren Wethers,
Emily: and I'm Emily Davis-Hale.
Lauren: And today we're reading chapters 26 through 30 of Pride and Prejudice with a focus on family.
30-Second Recaps
Praise baby Jesus. I am not recapping first because we all know how well last episode went for me.
Emily: We are recording these episodes back to back. So...
Lauren: I feel like this theme will be much easier to find things to discuss. Since we're talking about family, which is the majority of this section, it's always interesting how those types of things work out.
Whereas last episode. We, we earned our non-existent paycheck to be able to read colonialism into, into the previous section. Whereas this one, family's on every page. So we have plenty to discuss and to dissect.
Emily: With war, too. It was very like thematic and metaphorical, but this time to be like, yeah, no, there's a for they're relatives, they're blood relations.
Lauren: How many dysfunctional families can we count in five chapters of Pride and Prejudice?
Emily: How many families are there? Well, I guess before we start talking about dysfunctional families, we should recap! And I have to go first...
Lauren: You got this. Are you ready?
Emily: Yes.
Lauren: Okay. 3, 2, 1 go.
Emily: Mr. Collins and Charlotte Lucas are married and promptly remove themselves back to his living at Hunsford.[00:02:00]
A couple months later, Elizabeth goes. Sir, William and Charlotte's younger sister to visit them and is introduced to Lady Catherine de Bourgh and her daughter. They visit, they are impressed. And at the very end of the section, Mr. Darcy arrives.
Lauren: Well done.
Emily: Thank you. Lauren. Are you ready to recap?
Lauren: This is redemption time, so I certainly hope so.
Emily: And three, two, one. Go.
Lauren: Okay. Jane goes to London with her aunt and uncle because Liz was like, go get your mans. And Jane's like, yeah, I'm going to go do that. So she goes to London. Mrs. Gardiner tells Elizabeth not to trust Wickham, Elizabeth says, okay, I won't. Wickham is interested in somebody else with more money anyway. She goes to visit Charlotte who's now married to Mr. Collins. She meets Lady Catherine de Bourgh, who is very rich and very annoying, her daughter who seems very sickly. And Elizabeth thinks that she'll make a great match for Mr. Darcy because they're both miserable. Mr. Darcy shows up at the very end, he speaks two words, and then he leaves.
Emily: Nice.
Lauren: Ooh. Okay. That was so much better.
Let’s Review, Shall We? The Events of Chapters 26-30
Emily: So yeah, we open with the tail end of the Gardiners' Christmas visit to Longbourne.
Lauren: And we are able to get a little bit more of Mrs. Gardiner's personality because we, we ended the last section with her just arriving and kind of casting some, some glances between Elizabeth and Wickham and kind of getting the sense of the situation.
And before she goes back to London, she decides she's going to pull her niece aside for a little heart to heart and say, you know, it's fine for you to think that like he's an amiable person and all of that, but this is not going to be a good match for you. Do not entertain it. It's not happening. And Elizabeth is like, oh, I wouldn't.
Well, maybe I would, you know, I can never rule it out, but I have, I don't actually have any plans.
Emily: Mrs. Gardiner says you have sense and we all expect you to use it.
Lauren: Pretty much.
Emily: Please. Someone has to have sense.
Lauren: And Elizabeth is being her usual jokey self throughout. And she's like, wow, you're [00:04:00] being really serious here. And her aunt's like, yeah, I am being serious. Don't do it. And Elizabeth is still cracking jokes and her aunt is like, no. Listen to the words that are coming out of my mouth, do not entertain an attachment with this broke officer. It will not end well for you. Just don't do it.
Emily: Oh, so finally Lizzie does sort of agree and it's like, okay, I won't do anything to overtly encourage it. And I'll try not to fall in love myself.
Lauren: He shall not be in love with me if I can prevent it.
Emily: But the Gardiners and Jane go off to London so that Jane may have a chance of finding Mr. Bingley and tempting him back. And after they leave, Mr. Collins comes back to marry Charlotte.
Lauren: And they are wasting no time.
Emily: No.
Lauren: And they mentioned last section that you know, Lady Catherine de Bourgh was encouraging them to get married as quickly as possible. And so Mr. Collins can not refuse her. And so it was like, absolutely, we will get married immediately! Post haste.
Emily: Yes. And they also said of Charlotte after their engagement, that like, she, she was not about to put up with whatever Mr. Collins decided courtship was. So she's also perfectly happy to get married right off the bat.
Lauren: And she's like, let's just get this over with. I don't want to -- let's -- no -- we're not playing games.
Emily: Please don't attempt to charm me. I'm going to marry you.
Let's just get it over with.
Lauren: Pretty much. And she knows that the charm is non-existent and she doesn't want to pretend.
Emily: She's in this for the marriage. And the marriage she will get.
Lauren: That's literally it. And Charlotte asks Lizzie, like, you'll come and visit won't you. And Elizabeth says that she will, and she's still, she's trying to be supportive of her friend, but she also feels as, though like, there is something that's changed between the two of them where they won't be as close as they were before.
Emily: Which is sad, but I mean, that's also... that just happens. I am sure everybody has friends that they once were inseparable [00:06:00] from who they just don't really stay in contact with anymore. They don't have the same kind of relationship or intimacy.
Lauren: People change, life gets in the way. And you know, sometimes it's, you're prioritizing family, you know, if you have to put all of your energy into your marriage or into your children that doesn't always leave a lot of space for friendships.
And then also, while Jane is in London, she writes to Caroline to see if they can reunite while they're in London and she's beginning to get the sense that maybe Caroline doesn't like her as much as she thought that she did. And even Jane has to admit like, She doesn't really want to make my acquaintance.
She's like, Caroline wasn't really in good spirits when I saw her, she didn't really feel happy to see me. She just kind of accepted my visit out of duty and then repaid it later and did not give me the impression that she wanted to see me again.
Emily: Poor Jane also seems kind of confused about it because as she says, Caroline was the one who made all the overtures of friendship initially about trying to get to know her and bring her into their social circle.
And now she's just dropped her.
Lauren: You know, it's probably because in the countryside, Jane was the only person who Caroline felt was worthy of her attention, but that was a limited time offer, like you're good enough for here because everybody else is beneath me and you are too, but like you're tolerable.
But now I'm back in my element in the city, in town with people who are of my same social stature and I do not need you anymore.
Emily: Plus her initial, reaching out to Jane had the unintended effect of Charles falling in love with her. And she can't have that.
Lauren: No. And she's still trying to make sure that the two of them don't see each other either like, oh, well, I don't really know where, where my brother is.
He must be with Georgiana... just like the thinnest of veiled [00:08:00] comments.
Emily: We also find out that Wickham's attention has been called away to another young lady who has suddenly come into possession of 10,000 pounds. And so now she is much more interesting than Elizabeth was, and Lizzie's sort of resigned to it, says to her aunt that she thinks she must never have really been much in love because she doesn't hate him basically.
And doesn't even think badly of this other girl.
Lauren: And she's also being a little bit hypocritical because we just saw her judge Charlotte for marrying for pragmatic reasons in the section before it, but she doesn't seem to have any of that same judgment for Wickham, when it's clear that he's only going after this person because she just came in to 10,000 pounds and her aunt even points this out, not specifically the comparison between Charlotte and Wickham, but is talking about like, don't you think it's a little bit imprudent that he didn't show any interest in her at all until she got the 10,000 pounds? Kind of trying to nudge Lizzie in that direction, but she will not think ill of Wickham.
She's like, well, Now it's a pragmatic match. So of course he is. And her aunt's just like, you're not hearing me.
Emily: Eventually the time comes now that sir William and Maria Lucas are going to visit Charlotte. She's been settled in Hunsford now with her new husband for a few months. And although Lizzie was kind of reluctant at first to agree that she would go and visit Charlotte, now it's basically absence makes the heart grow fonder and she realizes, oh, I actually miss my best friend. What a concept.
Lauren: And she's less disgusted with Mr. Collins now he's not in her face all the time.
Emily: Which makes sense.
Lauren: And they also have like a little bit of a stopover in London too. So she gets to see Jane.
She gets to verify that like she's well and healthy before they continue on to Hunsford. But also there's still no news of Bingley. When they go to London that's when she's able to have like a full conversation with her aunt, because she had written [00:10:00] to her before, like yeah. That's that. That's the end of that.
And then they're having a conversation and Mrs. Gardiner says, you know, but my dear Elizabeth, what sort of girl is Ms. King? I should be sorry to think our friend mercenary, and Elizabeth goes pray. My dear aunt. What is the difference in matrimonial affairs between the mercenary and the prudent motive?
Where does discretion end and avarice begin? Girl, you couldn't have applied that same grace to your friend?
Emily: Right?
Lauren: The one who you're going to see? This doesn't like--
Emily: Charlotte prudent motive, Lucas.
Lauren: Hello. You didn't make that connection in your brain. Bless her.
Emily: We could hope that she's matured in the last few months, but I think she's just oblivious.
Lauren: No, cause then she goes on to say, you know, last Christmas you were afraid of his marrying me because it would be imprudent. And now, because he was trying to get a girl with only 10,000 pounds, you want to find out that he is mercenary and her aunt says, well, if you will only tell me what sort of girl Ms. King is, I shall know what to think. And Elizabeth is like, oh, she's good. You know, whatever. Her aunt says, but he paid her not the smallest attention till her grandfather's death made her mistress of this fortune. Still trying to get Elizabeth to see the message she's trying to send. And Elizabeth says no, why should he? Literally direct quote, just oblivious. Right over her head.
Emily: In one ear and out the other.
Lauren: If that's the whole point of like this, this first half of the book for as much as Elizabeth prides herself on her perception of other people. Girly, it fails sometimes.
Emily: Yeah. Before they leave. Mrs. Gardiner also drops an invitation with Elizabeth to join them on a trip later in the summer, which Elizabeth is very excited about.
There was a comment a little bit earlier that in addition to wanting to see Charlotte, she also does not mind getting away from her family for a little while because she's just getting sick of them, which. A lot of us, I think have had that experience of, [00:12:00] I love my family, but oh my God, I need a break.
Lauren: It also doesn't help that her mother has been heated about Charlotte marrying Mr. Collins for this entire time to the point, like she wouldn't speak to Lizzie for a week. She couldn't look at her without like bursting into another rant for another month. And then even outside of the house, she was being rude to Charlotte. You know, she was telling everybody in the town about how annoyed she was.
She's just been being a pain in literally everyone's butt.
Emily: I cannot blame Lizzie for wanting to get away from that on any pretense, but finally, they come to the parsonage at Hunsford.
Lauren: Yeah, Charlotte's made herself a cute little home. She's even designed it so she doesn't have to be around her husband all the time.
Emily: Yeah. Elizabeth goes into a lot of praise for how Charlotte has arranged things so that Mr. Collins is always occupied with his own things and that he's not always just bursting in on her to annoy her. So yeah, Charlotte really seems to have made the best of a bad situation. She is comfortable. She is well provided for and she gets Mr. Collins out of the house as often as she possibly can.
Lauren: Like don't you have a flock to tend to my dear? Go, go spread the gospel. Goodbye. Leave the house!
Emily: Go pull some weeds. Go. Yeah. I love the comment on Mr. Collins showing off his garden. And then Charlotte being like, it's good for him. It's good, healthy exercise.
Lauren: It gives him something to do.
Emily: But the big coup of their arrival in Hunsford is that they are almost immediately invited to dine with Lady Catherine de Bourgh at Rosings Park!
Lauren: She condescended to invite them. And also Mr. Collins makes a big deal of telling Lizzie, you know, oh, it's okay.
If you don't have anything that's appropriate to wear, you know, just put on the best thing that you brought. And it actually will work better anyway, because Lady Catherine likes to make it known what everyone's social status is. So she likes [00:14:00] it better if you won't be dressed as well as she is.
Emily: He says she likes to have the distinction of rank preserved.
Which comes up just a couple of pages earlier as well. Because it's actually her daughter Anne, who comes by and gives the invitation and Lizzie asks why she doesn't come in rather than keeping Charlotte and Mr. Collins out talking to her by the side of the road. And Maria says, Charlotte says she hardly ever does.
It is the greatest of favors when Miss de Bourgh comes in, which is just -- once again, strikes me as very consciously and intentionally trying to preserve that distance between the lower sort and the higher class.
Lauren: Right. And it's not even like they're common folk, they're just lower genteel. Like they still have a living, you know, they're not in the service class of people, but they're not at her level and she has to make sure that they know that and that those distinctions are made very clear.
And the other thing with the arrival of her daughter is that that is the first time Elizabeth sees the person who Darcy is purportedly, supposed to marry. And Elizabeth is again being a little bit cruel because she is still stuck, how much she dislikes Darcy.
And she looks at at Anne, at Lady de Bourgh's daughter and goes, I like her appearance. She looks sickly and cross. She will do for him very well. She will make him a very proper wife. You haven't even seen him for months and--
Emily: You don't know this girl!
Lauren: You don't know her. There's no reason for you to drag her appearance.
And also you haven't seen Darcy for literal months. Why are you still harping on how much you don't like this man? Because even you said like she doesn't, she's been blaming Caroline for removing Bingley from the countryside. She's not even been blaming Darcy. So she can't even say like, oh, I dislike him because he like, ruined Jane's happiness at this point. She blames Caroline.
Emily: She totally doesn't care about Darcy.
Lauren: No, not at all.
Emily: Absolutely not, she never thinks [00:16:00] about him.
Lauren: Oh my gosh. No, no, never a second in the day. She doesn't compare every man she meets to Darcy.
Emily: No. Why would she do that?
Lauren: Rent-free. He lives in her brain rent-free.
Emily: Yes, but they do go up to Rosings for this grand dinner where every effort is made to impress upon them, the grandeur of Rosings and the wealth and esteem of Lady Catherine. Elizabeth is not that impressed.
Lauren: No.
Emily: That don't impress her much.
Lauren: It really does not. She's very Shania Twain. And it even says that, you know, for as much as sir William Lucas likes to speak about having been to the Royal court before even he, when he walks in, is a little bit intimidated.
Doesn't really know what to say. Looking around at all of the furnishings. And of course, Charlotte and Mr. Collins feel very deeply the privilege of being allowed into Rosings Park. And Elizabeth was just looking around like, okay, what else you got?
Emily: Yeah, it definitely gives the impression that Lady Catherine's trying to show off on every level.
I mean, she's decorated, built and decorated her house, very ostentatiously. And then because someone like Mr. Collins is able to give all of the financial details of the construction, obviously she has been talking about it. It's not like he was there directing the decoration of the house or anything, but he knows exactly like how much all of the windows costs and things like that.
So clearly she's been bragging about all of these details of money.
Lauren: For somebody who places so much emphasis on class, she certainly has none.
Emily: Not at all.
Lauren: And is also just rude the whole time and is overly forward and direct to the point of like causing offense. But can't actually be offense because she's at such a higher class that everyone should just be happy that she's speaking to them in the first place.
And Elizabeth is really the only one who like, she answers her very politely for like the very vast majority [00:18:00] of her questions, even though they're overly familiar questions like, oh, well, how many sisters do you have? Are they all out in society? Like these are not things that you ask.
Emily: And she asks for like the details of all their education, have they been to town, did they have governess, do they all sing and play and draw? And I mean, they're frankly rude questions, especially to someone that you just met.
Lauren: It's very nosy. Elizabeth, to her credit, like bears this all very well until eventually when Lady Catherine's like, oh, well, all of your sisters are out in society right now, how old are you?
And Elizabeth is finally like, okay, I'm kind of done with this. And she's like, well, with all of my sisters out in society, you can hardly expect me to say my age. And she's not even that old, like she's 20, but she's just sick of playing this game.
Emily: Lady Catherine obviously needs to know everything about everybody and wants everyone to know the grand details of her own life as well.
Lauren: Yeah. And Elizabeth thinks at first that the other people in her party were overdoing the praise. Mr. Collins, of course, is being himself and will not shut up about how wonderful everything is ad nauseum. Even sir, William has now like recovered himself and basically just like echoes everything that Mr. Collins says, and Elizabeth is looking at Lady Catherine, like surely this kind of like fawning must be annoying, but it's not.
She's like eating up every moment of it.
Emily: That's exactly what she wants. She wants to be revered above all else.
Lauren: And that's the difference between her and her nephew, because she and Darcy are similarly wealthy from the same family. And yet--
Emily: she wants to be the center of attention. And he would very much like to blend in with the wall paper.
Lauren: He is a literal wallflower.
Emily: Yeah.
Lauren: Like I do not wish to be perceived.
Emily: I relate.
Lauren: Don't look at me.
Emily: I am not a Catherine de Bourgh. I'm a Darcy.
Lauren: It's been well-established.
Emily: Yes.
So in the end, sir William is only able to stay for a week with his daughter, but when [00:20:00] he goes away back to Hartfordshire, Elizabeth and Maria, both stay and the Collins household kind of gets back into its regular rhythm now that Mr. Collins, his father-in-law isn't in residence anymore. So Lizzie gets to see the way Charlotte usually passes her days and what Mr. Collins is usually doing and how Charlotte keeps him at a distance.
Lauren: Keeps him at at least arms length at all times.
Emily: And she's also able to see just how involved Lady Catherine is in so many aspects of local life. She'll go down to the village to personally resolve disputes between people and...
Lauren: which is questionable. Like, are you really resolving disputes or are you fancying yourself resolving disputes between people?
Emily: I suspect that's closer to that.
Lauren: You know? And they also are at Rosings Park to dine at least twice a week. So, you know, the, the great honor of being asked to dine at Rosings Park happens literally twice a week because Lady Catherine's a busy body, she needs something to do, and she needs to have her nose in somebody's business.
Emily: Lady Catherine's a busy body. And so is Mr. Collins and he's the parish rector. So they're getting all their information!
Lauren: Match made in heaven.
Emily: They're just gossiping all the time presumably. In between his fawning admiration of her impeccable taste of course.
Lauren: Oh, Lady Catherine, you did such a wonderful job with these furnishings. And did I tell you that I spoke to Mr.
Hunt the other day and he said you did such a fantastic job of ensuring that there were absolutely no bad blood between the two villagers who were fighting the other day. She'd be like, oh, thank you so much.
Emily: Perfect. Fantastic. Tell me more how wonderful I am. But finally, eventually we close out the chapter with the arrival of lady Catherine's nephew, Mr. Darcy, and another of his cousins, Colonel Fitzwilliam.
Lauren: There is an [00:22:00] implication that the reason that he stopped to pay a visit is because he wanted to see Elizabeth again, because he doesn't really know Charlotte that well. For him to want to pay Charlotte a visit. He certainly doesn't know or like Mr. Collins very well. So there's really --
Emily: Not after that scene at the Netherfield Ball.
Lauren: No. And so there's no reason for him to make a point to stop at this house, except for the fact that he knows Elizabeth would be there.
Emily: Which Charlotte is perfectly cognizant of. She says, I may thank you, Eliza, for this piece of civility, Mr. Darcy would never have come so soon to wait upon me.
Lauren: Hint, hint, wink. Elizabeth. Hello. And his cousin is of a disposition that Elizabeth is more predisposed to like, like he's very amiable and has wonderful manners and make sure to say hello to everyone.
Emily: And he's a perfect gentleman.
Lauren: Exactly. And then meanwhile, his cousin's lurking in the corner just staring.
Emily: As he does.
Lauren: As he does, just looming over the company.
Emily: And then of course, Elizabeth being Elizabeth has to directly ask him, did you see Jane in London?
Lauren: Subtlety thy name is not Elizabeth.
Emily: Well, it certainly is not, but it seems like he actually had no idea that Jane was in town because it says that he just looks confused when she asks.
So I can only assume that Caroline was the only one who knew. And so I guess Caroline and Mrs. Hurst. But yeah and then happened to not say anything at all to her brother, because, you know, if Bingley knew he would be talking Darcy's ear off.
Lauren: Oh, one hundred percent. And he would be like walking around in circles, but like, what does this mean? Should I go and talk to her? Like very much the 19th century equivalent of, oh my God, my crush just signed on to aim. What do I do?
Emily: Wait, can I text her back yet? It's only, it's been three minutes. Do I have to wait five minutes or can I text her back now?
Lauren: Do I use one [00:24:00] period or three periods?
Emily: Is it okay to use emoji yet?
Lauren: One Y or three Ys for, Hey? There's a difference.
Emily: There is!
Historical Context: Regency Families
Lauren: I think those were all of the main events of the chapter. Were there any specific places where you saw. I mean family is everywhere, but were there any specific instances that you really wanted to dig into?
Emily: No, not necessarily. I mean, I, I really was just sort of looking at it as kind of a whole and the, those larger family relations and, and stuff.
Lauren: Yeah.
Emily: What about you?
Lauren: I was thinking about when we decided on this theme, we kind of put in parentheses, like chosen family. And so I was thinking about the act of choosing family and how that...it comes up in a different way. And like, when we think about like the chosen family trope, but as far as this goes because marriage is very much choosing your family, there's a lot of decisions that are being made or that are being withheld from people.
Like Bingley's unable to choose Jane to be part of his family because he doesn't even know that she's in town because his sister has decided that she does not want Jane as family. So she's like, I will just remove this decision from you completely, and you will not be able to make it. You can not choose Jane as your family, because I don't want her as part of the family.
I want better, heavy air quotes. Meanwhile Mrs. Gardiner is telling Elizabeth, you may not choose Wickham as family. Over my dead body. Don't you dare.
Emily: I'm team Mrs. Gardiner.
Lauren: Honestly, same. Even when they get to Rosings Park, there's all these other like different family dynamics that aren't necessarily like chosen family, because these are the family.
These are the family members who can't be chosen. They're just family regardless. And Mr. Collins, who wanted to marry his cousin, which was normal then, but still to my 21st century ideas... Okay, dude.
Emily: To be fair, we don't know how closely related they are as cousins.
Lauren: This is a fair [00:26:00] point, but still it was like, I know that that was perfectly normal in the Regency era.
It just will never feel normal to me. But he's trying to prove to Lizzie that there are no hard feelings, but really is still trying to impress her. Like how-- look what you gave up by saying no. Lady Catherine and her daughter have a very interesting relationship. I feel like that is something we'll see more in the, in the chapters to come, but, Anne seems more like an extension of lady Catherine than she does her own person.
Emily: Definitely. And you do not get the impression that she has any kind of autonomy.
Lauren: Does she have any dialogue at all? I didn't think so.
Emily: I mean, off page, I guess. She's the one who delivers the invitation to dinner, but Lizzie's not there for that. So.
Lauren: We never hear it. And then of course, there's, you know, that's also Mr. Darcy's family, that's his aunt. And his cousin and like not--
Emily: actual first cousin.
Lauren: Yeah. And then also Colonel Fitzwilliam. Who's his other cousin. Lots of family members just abound.
Emily: Oh yes.
Lauren: Yeah. I'm mostly just thinking about, we talked so much about marriage last time and thinking about how it's obvious that marriage is choosing your family, especially back then, because you really were marrying into a family.
You are still today, but there's a little bit more autonomy with like how often or how much you interact with your new family these days than there was back then. But there's a lot of choice that feels prominent in these pages about like choosing what family is going to look like for the next generation.
Emily: Definitely. Yeah. And it feels like it comes with more of an eye to the future kind of like Charlotte was dealing with, because you really do have to look at the situation that your potential partner's family is in. Will they be able to care for your children? Because [00:28:00] hopefully you're going to have a hell of a lot of them because you know, they had to have tons of children because so many of them died in infancy.
Lauren: Yeah. That's another aspect of family, infant mortality, and the Regency era.
Emily: Oh yeah.
Lauren: Was that your research topic for today?
Emily: I mean, it was part of it just--
Lauren: I was kidding!
Emily: No, I mean actually like when you, when you start looking into, you know, family dynamics and organization and the Regency, I mean, yeah. People were having double digits of children because it was extremely likely that multiple would die in infancy or in childhood.
You know, things happened. They did not have the advanced medical technology we did today. And a lot of the medicine that they did have was considered unsafe to practice on delicate infants, which was a reasonable, reasonable thing to assume.
Lauren: Well, especially when the medicine that you practice is draining people of blood. I'm glad they didn't practice that on infants.
Emily: Right.
Lauren: They don't have that much to begin with. Maybe just let that stay within their bodies. Thank you so much.
Emily: They have extra bones, but they don't have extra blood. For those who don't know because infants’ bones have not fused yet. They— they're born with more, with a higher number of distinct bones than a human adult will have.
Lauren: And don't they like not have kneecaps? Like those haven't formed yet. It's just cartilage. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: I don't know that much. You know, infant anatomy, but yeah, just in case people are like, excuse me, babies have extra bones? That's cause their skulls were in like a million pieces! And they haven't grown kneecaps yet!
Lauren: This has now turned into an anatomy podcast. Two people without medical degrees are going to teach you.
Emily: Peep-- 2 people with only the most passing knowledge of anatomy are going to tell you about how [00:30:00] fucking weird infants are.
Lauren: What other historical context did you have other than infant mortality?
Emily: Mostly it was looking at like, what sort of family dynamics would have been and the way they change around marriage, especially, but then we don't even necessarily see all these things, you know, represented one to one in the book, because for people of the middle and lower classes, when it comes to like your household, it's made up of a greater number of family members than we would typically have today.
Partly because, you know, They had so many children. But also because like elderly, widowed parents might be living with you. There could be other extended family members, either visiting or living with you on a more permanent basis. Also like, I mean, we can just see here. We have no idea how long Lizzie and Maria are visiting with the Collinses for.
Lauren: Because sir Lucas was only there for a week.
Emily: Yeah. Like, wow. Imagine spending an entire week. I mean, I wouldn't mind spending an entire with my in-laws like, that'd be fun, but yeah.
Wow.
Lauren: And that being a short period of time to where you're expected to usually have more with those family members. Like, I didn't have in-laws but people thought it was weird that I spent two months with my family during COVID. They're like, are you okay? Do you need to come back? And I was like, no, I'm fine.
Emily: I'm good now I wasn't okay before. That's why I went to spend two months with my family.
Lauren: The whole point was that I'm better with my family, but not everyone is able to have a good relationship with their family, or even if you have a good relationship that doesn't necessarily mean you want to spend two months with them, which is also totally valid.
Emily: Yeah. Going back to what the household might look like if you're basically anywhere above like the very lowest rungs of society you probably have servants.
It might just be, you know, a day maid who comes in to help with laundry and cooking and things like that. Or once you get up to the [00:32:00] slightly higher classes, they would probably have like live-in servants, multiple people who would come in and do things. And they're also sort of part of the households, but as children grow up, they're educated at home for the most part.
Both girls and boys. There might be a governess who comes in. They might be able to learn from masters of certain subjects, especially for the arts.
Lauren: Which is what it's implied the Bennets had, cause they didn't have a governess.
Emily: No, they didn't have masters.
Lauren: I thought that was what — they're like, because Elizabeth said like, oh, sometimes people would come in. If we wanted to learn a specific thing, but for the most part, if you wanted to be idle, you could be idle, which is what Lydia and Kitty did. Just didn't, didn't take advantage of that at all, which is why they're the stupidest ones.
Emily: Yeah. As children grow up. I mean, they're definitely learning the basics of how a household functions, but yeah, as we've talked about in a couple of previous episodes, daughters were generally learning about household management how to take care of it.
Whatever size estate they might be in charge of because when a daughter gets married, she goes off and joins her new husband's household. That may include his own extended family, or it could be smaller, you know, just the two married partners like Charlotte and Mr. Collins. But the woman is going to be in charge of running the household while the husband is doing whatever professional trade or day labor job he has to provide income.
Yeah. So depending on the family situation, sons would be more likely, especially eldest sons to stay at home. When they married, their wife would join the households. And then their children would continue on.
The next generations and basically sort of staying put [00:34:00] in the same spot. So that's basically what would have been expected of the Bennets had they had any sons, the son would marry, the new wife would come and take over, rather than Charlotte Lucas becoming mistress of Longbourne. That was just sort of the overview of what a typical middling class family might've looked like and what their expectations might have been.
During that period. It's always, I love getting the opportunity to look at these really granular just sort of everyday interactions. I mean, it's part of the reason that I love doing like linguistics and anthropology. The whole reason why I'm into like historical fashion is looking at these just small things.
Like what affects people's everyday lives and family would have been one of the biggest things influencing how people live on a day-to-day basis.
Lauren: Yeah. I find it interesting to think about how. I mean how much that played into literally every social interaction that there could be. It was all determined by who your family was and which family are you going to marry into?
Emily: Yeah, especially if you had siblings because where you marry influences where your siblings can marry. As we've seen with Mrs. Bennett, trying to get Jane married off to Bingley and outright saying, if Jane marries up, then all the other girls have an even better chance. Cause you definitely do want to marry up.
Lauren: Oh, absolutely. No. Is in a society that's so conscious of class. No one wants to go backward.
Emily: Absolutely not.
Lauren: And go up or stay the same, but it's the love of God. Don't take a step down.
Emily: Nope. You'll never claw your way back.
Lauren: Which is also why there was so many people marrying first or second cousins. There's only so many wealthy people. [00:36:00] And if you're not going to condescend to marry somebody below you of a different social class your options are limited.
Emily: And then once you get to the very top, then you'd just have to go and marry, you know, aristocrats from other countries who are also probably related to you.
Especially once we hit Victoria.
Lauren: That Hamburg jaw, is that what it's called?
Emily: The umm...
Lauren: Habsburg?
Emily: Habsburg.
Lauren: Habsburg jaw. Hamburglar jaw!
Emily: European history would be so much more entertaining.
Lauren: Yeah, no. When the higher up you get, the more likely it is that you're a little inbred.
Emily: Or a lot inbred.
Lauren: Or a lot.
Emily: They were a lot inbred. It was bad. That family tree was just going around in circles.
Lauren: And I'm sure those faces were just unfortunate.
Emily: You might have to assume that like Royal portraiture especially is gotta be flattering to its subject and when the Royal portraits look that bad...
Lauren: and it also makes a lot more sense where, you know, you could be. Beguiled by like a beautiful peasant girl, you know, not to actually marry, but just to have like a little dalliance with, if you're a man, because you can. Because she actually has variance in her gene pool, so of course she's beautiful.
Emily: She doesn't have the same jaw as every one of your cousins. Y'all, seriously, if you have not seen the Habsburg jaw, please go look it up. What is this? And it was Charles, Charles, the second of Spain also known as the Bewitched. Probably cause he looked so terrible. The last Habsburg ruler at the Spanish empire.
Pop Culture Connection: Dom Toretto’s Family
Do you have a pop culture connection for us today Lauren?
Lauren: I did. So I was thinking about the, the found family trope that we see so much in fiction.
Emily: One of my faves.
Lauren: You know, do love it. Found or chosen family, either, or.
Emily: I mean, being queer ourselves. It's... that's kind [00:38:00] of the queer trope.
Lauren: Comes up all the time.
Emily: Even when you do have great families like we do, it's just, it's great.
Lauren: It's irresistible. So in on TV Tropes, that org, which just has so much fantastic content, when you're thinking about like the trope of like your chosen family, what they have said is often in fiction, a character who starts out conveniently an orphan will pick up extremely loyal companions along the way.
Sometimes these relationships are forged through the fire of conflict, but with families of choice, it's a bit different. Members of a chosen family, more than the lack of family in their lives and decided to build one of their own out of people they care for and to care for them in return. As in real life, this is most common when something has happened to these characters to isolate them from blood relatives, maybe they have no family to turn to.
Maybe they have a supernatural secret they can't share with their closest friends. They might just have a bad home life in general and decided to leave. But, you know, either way, they have decided to create a family of their own. And so, although in Pride and Prejudice, it's obviously not as dramatic as you know, you have a supernatural secret that you can't tell your family.
And so you have to go find other magical people to create a family with. I say all that, to say that in thinking about choosing your family and thinking about found family, because Fast and Furious nine has hit theaters. The only thing that I could think about was the family meme that has been going around online lately.
And if you are not as extremely online as I am and have been so fortunate as to miss this meme, I cannot because my brother makes sure to send me every single one that he sees, because he knows that I find the Fast and Furious movies to be ridiculous. And so he makes sure to send me any Fast and Furious related content because he knows I don't like it.
Emily: As siblings do.
Lauren: As siblings do.
Emily: But please fill me in on the context because I know absolutely nothing except that there's cars.
Lauren: Yeah. So the, the stakes get progressively higher with each movie to the point where they might actually have gone to space in this one, but that's not relevant for the topic of this conversation, but the most important thing to know for [00:40:00] this discussion with fast and furious is that they're, you know, a ragtag group of multiracial multinational people who are all one big family, that Vin Diesel is the head of, called, and his character's called Dom Toretto.
And so the, the running joke is that in every movie, you know, no matter how ridiculous the stakes are, Vin Diesel will say something along the lines of like, doesn't matter. Cause we got family. You know what we know what we have that they don't have? Family. And It has become a running joke because Fast and Furious 9 just came out.
And so they've-- people have been inserting Vin Diesel into different situations, which seemed to be impossible and saying like, no, it's okay because we have the power of family. And so, you know, one example would be like Mufasa, falling off a cliff in the lion king and then Vin Diesel swoops around in a car and like, pulls him onto the hood through the power of family.
I feel like that is the most prominent example of like found slash chosen family that's in the pop culture discourse right now. But another one that was also really good example of chosen family is like guardians of the galaxy, which is another, you know, ragtag group of people who seem as though they have nothing in common, but are united through, you know, the trial by fire, which is something that cheap-- TV tropes kind of alluded to. And so they'll have through their common goal have now become like family. I'm a sucker for a good found family, chosen family. Like it's similar to like what you said, often, I feel like people who are really, really into chosen family or people want to have that escapism of like, I'm not really a big fan of my family, but I like the idea of choosing family. I love my family to pieces, but I also love watching characters who have like, terrible home lives be like, oh, now I feel accepted. Like I found the people [00:42:00] who love me. I'm like, yes, you did.
Emily: Yeah. People make jokes that like, oh, if your favorite fiction trope is found family, then basically. You're like projecting. That's what you want. I'm like, no, my-- chosen family is one of my favorite tropes because my family is the one who just like adopts everyone. Like--
Lauren: that's so true.
Emily: We were the ones who are like, okay, which one of your friends isn't able to go home for Thanksgiving this year?
Because they're coming home with us. Like. We were the Davis holiday orphanage. We just took all of my friends.
Lauren: I went two years ago when a storm was going to hit New Orleans and Emily was in Guatemala. I drove to their parents' house and just hung out with them for like a four day weekend, even though Emily wasn't there and just let myself in, like, I'm just going to, I was invited it wasn't like, they didn't know that I was coming, but I think I got there--
Emily: but also, you could have just walked in.
Lauren: I think I did. Or maybe I didn't that I, there is, there has been an occasion where I've just let myself into your parents' house and just hung out on the couch until they got home.
Because so many of your friends have done that before.
Emily: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's just established now you can do that.
Lauren: Yeah. I drove two and a half hours, even though Emily was in a different country. Just like, hey. It's me! I've come to hang! My family --I can't drive to my parents' house. It's going to take me two days. They live too far away.
Emily: But yeah, basically. Yeah. My family, despite the fact that we're all biologically related are just like trying to be a found family trope.
Lauren: Yeah. That's accurate.
Emily: We're, we're just the people who are like, ah, yes, we claim you now. You're, you're an honorary Davis.
Well, I love that. We got to talk about found family and chosen family in this way, since we don't really see it in the text here, but we'll always find a way to talk about it.
Lauren: Yeah. And I feel like--
Emily: it's a good trope, Brent.
Lauren: It is a good trope! You know, we've we have our own chosen family in the city.
I chose you as my family. [00:44:00] We still created one.
Emily: Yeah. Having an awesome biological family has in no way prevented me from also choosing more family members who then the rest of my biological family is like, yeah, we're related to them too. They have fully adopted Lauren. Despite the fact that Lauren also has a great family.
Lauren: Then my family also would do that with some of my high school friends, especially where it's just like, okay other daughter, come on. Let's go.
Final Takeaways
Emily: Well, are we ready to wind this down and wrap it up?
Lauren: I do believe so.
Emily: Since I recapped first this time, it's your turn to give a final takeaway.
Lauren: I think my final takeaway is that along the lines of found family, not meaning that you don't have excellent biological family, is that family are the people who support you, whether or not they're blood-related to you, like the people in whom you find love and support, and sometimes gentle critique. As we see with Mrs. Gardiner are the people who are, who are your family, regardless of whether or not you share blood.
Emily: Yeah, I think mine, kind of similar to that, is that you don't have to always feel the same way towards your family, whether that's chosen family or biological family. It's-- it's okay. If, sometimes you feel closer and sometimes you feel a little further away. If you still consider them your family, then they're your family.
Lauren: You know what we got? We got family.
Thank you for joining us in this episode of Reclaiming Jane. Next time we'll look at chapters 31 through 35 of Pride and Prejudice through the lens of trust.
Emily: To read a full transcript of this episode, check out our website, reclaimingjanepod.com, where you can also find the show notes, our full back catalog, and links to social media.[00:46:00]
Lauren: If you'd like to support us and get access to exclusive content, you can join our Patreon @ReclaimingJanePod.
Emily: Reclaiming Jane is produced and co-hosted by Lauren Wethers and Emily Davis Hale. Our music is by Latasha Bundy and our show art is by Emily Davis Hale.
Lauren: We'll see you next time.
[outro music ends]
…The man is MIA. There should be missing person posters. Have you seen this...?
Emily: Have you seen Charles, Charles Bingley?
Lauren: Have you seen this ginger? I'm actually thinking,
Emily: where is this human golden retriever?
Lauren: Honestly, he's only ginger in the 2005 movie, but that is forever how I will see him in my brain.
Emily: I mean, it was just so perfectly cast.
Lauren: It really was.