Northanger Abbey 16-18: “Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.”

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You can't keep Catherine Morland down for long. Despite certain disappointments - and alarming developments - it's more important to remember that wishes do come true... While we talk about legal topics and early 2000s dramas, of course.

Transcript

Reclaiming Jane Season 6 Episode 6

Emily: [00:00:00] This is Reclaiming Jane, an Austen podcast for fans on the margins.

Lauren: I'm Lauren Wethers.

Emily: And I'm Emily Davis Hale.

Lauren: And today, we're reading chapters 16 through 18 of Northanger Abbey through the theme of adaptability.

Emily: Welcome back to Northanger Abbey, friends.

Lauren: We have some drama afoot in these three chapters.

Emily: We definitely do.

Lauren: I am very excited.

Emily: Such drama that even Catherine is kind of aware of some of it.

Lauren: She, she doesn't realize that it's drama. She doesn't get the full extent of it, but she understands enough to pick up on the fact that something is not right here.

And there might be larger drama afoot. That I'm sure will come to a head in the next couple of chapters.

Emily: We're really getting gothic now.

Lauren: Bless her soul. Mm hmm.

Emily: Well, shall we go ahead and recap so that we can talk about some of the drama in more depth?

Lauren: Yes, please.

Emily: All right.

Lauren: It is my recap first.

Emily: Are you ready to tell us in 30 seconds what happens in these three chapters?

Lauren: Ready.

Emily: On your mark. Get set. Go.

Lauren: Catherine goes to dinner with the Tilneys. She thinks that they're acting a little bit weird and she's very concerned about it. But then the next time she sees them, everything is fine. Isabella finds out how much money her betrothed is going to get per year if they're married.

And it does not seem to be up to her expectations. However, Henry Tilney's older brother has returned or just returned at all, come to Bath. And she seems a little bit more interested in him than Catherine would [00:02:00] prefer. And she says that John really wants to marry her and Catherine is very upset by this fact.

And that's pretty much it.

Emily: All right. I'm glad that you wrapped that up so quickly because I started looking at something else and missed your five second countdown.

Lauren: I could see your phone.

Emily: All right. But you made it.

Lauren: I made it. I did jump around temporally a little bit, but that's okay. That wasn't the rule.

The rule was sum it up in 30 seconds.

Emily: Exactly.

Lauren: Okay. Emily, are you ready to sum up these three chapters of dramatic Northanger Abbey?

Emily: I'm ready to make an attempt.

Lauren: Fantastic. An attempt is all we ask.

Emily: All right.

Lauren: Okay. Ready. Set. Go.

Emily: Catherine's visit to the Tilney's is kind of disappointing. But then Captain Tilney has arrived and Isabella is dancing with him.

It turns out that Isabella and James can't be married for another, like, two to three years, and she's not pleased with that. Catherine gets invited to Northanger Abbey, the Tilneys' home, and finds out John Thorpe's intentions towards her, discourages them via Isabella, but Isabella's a little too enamored with the captain now.

Lauren: The end. You had two seconds.

Emily: Nice!

Lauren: Also, I'm glad that you got to the fact that they said the thing!

Emily: They said the thing!

Lauren: They said the name of the book! We're going to Northanger Abbey, y'all!

Emily: We're going to Northanger Abbey! Finally, literally more than halfway through the book, we found out what Northanger Abbey is.

I can only assume that because it is the source of the title, it, it has to feature prominently in the second half.

Lauren: One would think.

Emily: Mm hmm. Yeah. I am also extremely frustrated. Because whoever the editor is of my edition of this book, this is like the second or third time that future plot points have been spoiled in the footnotes or endnotes.

I'm so mad. I will not pass the spoilers on to our dear listeners, because I care about you more than that. But, like... They'll make an end note for some cultural thing, and like, oh cool, that's neat to know. And then the last sentence of it will be like, oh yeah, this'll prove relevant [00:04:00] later when this thing happens.

Like, why would you say that? Just have another end note later that says, remember when we talked about this thing? I'm livid.

Lauren: Dear editors, don't do this.

Emily: Don't do this!

Lauren: Yes, we are aware that these books have been out for two centuries. We don't care. We want the same reading experience. We would like to read it unspoiled.

Do not assume that the people who have picked up this edition of the book have read it before or know what the plot points are, because for all you know, this is their first introduction. Just let them experience it as it was meant to be. Anyway, we will, we will continue to, to summarize without spoiling, but we do start with, like a supposed disappointingly non eventful dinner at the Tilney's for Catherine.

Emily: Yeah, it seemed like, the two children were kind of out of sorts, like not really in a...everyone was perfectly civil to her, especially General Tilney, but yeah, she, she was disappointed and she hates admitting that she's disappointed. Isabella, on the other hand, is like, I knew it. I knew these people were full of themselves.

Lauren: Like they're the worst. You don't need them as friends. They're poorly treating you. And Catherine says, you know, I don't know that I would go that far, actually. I think they were maybe just having a bad day. And Isabella is just already off in her own mind of, no, they're terrible. Everything is going wrong. Until of course they show up the next day and they're perfectly civil and everything is right again.

Emily: Yeah. And she really changes her tune when she's introduced to the elder brother, Captain Tilney, who comes and asks Isabella to dance. Isabella, of course, has made a big to do about the fact that she's not going to dance, her dear James is not here, she's, she's going to sit by herself. Captain Tilney comes and asks, convolutedly, I guess sort of like, makes a comment to Henry, who is dancing with Catherine, and Catherine says, Oh no, Isabella has said that she's not going to dance.

And then he goes and asks Isabella anyway, and Catherine is [00:06:00] absolutely dumbfounded to see the two of them standing up to dance together, because Isabella had been so vehement that she was not going to dance.

Lauren: And Henry, bless him, manages to tell Catherine, you know, I think you might be missing the point, but it's in such a sweet way that I can't even be mad at you for it.

And even as he's trying to tell her, you are thinking the best of people. And so I can see why you would believe that Isabella would not stand up to dance, or what my brother's intentions were to going to ask her to dance, but I don't, I don't know that you have the right read in this situation. And Catherine's just like, what?

What do you mean? I don't know what you're talking about.

Emily: Poor sweet Catherine is like, Oh, he must've felt so bad for seeing her sitting there alone. And Henry's like, Oh no, I don't think that's it. Yeah. And the two of them get very chummy very quickly.

Lauren: Mm hmm. To the point where even Catherine picks up on the fact that something's going on.

When they are at the rooms a different day, Isabella pulls Catherine aside to a more secluded area so they could speak privately. And . Notices that as they're speaking, Isabella's not really fully paying attention to the conversation. Her eyes are always darting around the room, looking elsewhere, to the point where Catherine is, you know, she's trying to now tease Isabella the way that she's been told she doesn't before.

So she's trying to like bring some of that playfulness into the conversation, says, Oh, don't worry. My brother will be here soon. Isabella goes, Your brother? I don't care about him. Anyway, I'm not looking for anybody. I'm just merely making conversation. And is immediately proven wrong when Captain Tilney enters the room.

And they have this rapport that even Catherine picks up on as being incredibly flirtatious, and she's angry almost on her brother's behalf.

Emily: Who wouldn't be?

Lauren: Right.

Emily: This girl is literally engaged to her brother and is just out here in public having a very spirited exchange with this man that she's literally just met.

Lauren: And before [00:08:00] there had already been a little bit of drama when Isabella found out that they would only get 400 pounds a year to live off of, which James is happy about.

Isabella has difficulty hiding her disappointment and then tries to chalk it up to, Oh, I'm just sad that we'll have to wait so long to marry... is what she tells Catherine, which Catherine accepts, but she was not entirely convinced because she can see that Isabella is unhappy. And she likes this explanation that she's given because she doesn't want to think ill of her friend.

And she wants to think of her as a sentimental person, but something's in the back of her mind that all is not right.

Emily: Yeah, Catherine's starting to cotton on to a few things. Also, gotta say, another peak autism moment where she's like, I'm going to tease Isabella the way, the way she always thinks I am, and Isabella immediately is like, what are you doing?

What are you talking about? It's like, oh, I feel that in my soul.

Lauren: Like, dang it, I thought I had it.

Emily: I thought I was doing social right. I'm gonna get a good grade in teasing my friends.

Lauren: Because that's something reasonable that I can achieve.

Emily: Normal to want and possible to achieve.

Lauren: Exactly.

Emily: Oh my goodness, but she does at least have the exquisite joy of being invited to Northanger Abbey, which the way it happens is so funny because she's visiting with Miss Tilney and Miss Tilney is very hesitantly just starting to, like, sort of embarrassed to...

way, open a new subject, and General Tilney comes in. It's like, oh, so have you asked Catherine? Can I, like, Can we start planning or whatever? and Eleanor is like, well, I was just about to, and General Tilney just makes the invitation for her that they would be delighted to have Catherine come and stay in Northanger Abbey with them for a little while, because they are just about to leave Bath.

Lauren: And Catherine at first had been devastated at the prospect of them leaving Bath, and then that quickly turns to elation because not only does [00:10:00] she get to go with them, but she gets to go to an abbey, and she's already envisioning all the hallways and all the nooks and crannies that there are going to be.

She is like, this is the greatest thing to ever happen to me.

Emily: Gothic dream.

Lauren: Exactly.

Emily: I'm sure everything will be perfectly all right.

Lauren: It's going to be so many mysteries for her to find.

Emily: And nothing terrible will happen.

Lauren: Nothing.

Emily: Nothing at all.

Lauren: It's not going to be like, it's going to be exactly as she's envisioned it.

I don't believe that she's built it up bigger than it actually is at all.

Emily: No, definitely not.

Lauren: Why would she do that?

Emily: And I believe I'm interpreting correctly that she does actually get confirmation that it was an abbey that was, you know, claimed away from the church at the time of the Reformation. So, like, she actually does have confirmation that, like, yes, it's basically, it's an old building.

There are parts of it that are not used.

Lauren: Correct.

Emily: And that's good enough for her.

Lauren: Like, I'll take it. Adventure awaits.

Emily: I know by the rules of the genre, it's not going to work out for her, but I still wish it would.

Lauren: You just, you just can't help but root for her. You can't. She's too cute.

Emily: She's like, completely unironically, she's never done anything wrong in her life.

Lauren: Sweet baby angel.

Emily: Precious girl.

Lauren: Those, those are the main events of these three chapters.

Emily: Yeah, it was a quick little section.

Lauren: It was.

Emily: Oh, we completely forgot to mention the, well, I mentioned it at least in my recap, Isabella actually tells Catherine that John had been attempting to make preambles of marriage to her.

And Catherine, now apprised of the actual situation, is like, Oh, no, no, no. I don't actually want that. And tries to convey to Isabella that she would like John to not do that anymore. and of course, is perfectly contented that, of course, her friend will let her brother know, that she's not interested.

And he'll stop, of course. Because that's, that's what a gentleman would do.

Lauren: And that's reasonable of [00:12:00] her to expect from Isabella and John, of all people.

Emily: Yeah, of course, Isabella frames it as Catherine had been interested, but she's changed her mind now. And so she, she has this lovely little speech about changing minds and at the end of it says, "Take my word for it, that if you were in too great a hurry, you will certainly live to repent it. Tilney says, there is nothing people are so often deceived in as the state of their own affections, and I believe he is very right."

Lauren: Are we quoting Tilney now?

Emily: Tilney, not even Captain Tilney, just Tilney. Which, recall back to Emma, dear listeners, when we were apprised very strongly of the intimacy of referring to, an unrelated person as only their last name when Mrs. Elton starts calling Mr. Knightley just Knightley and Emma is like, the audacity?! Excuse me! So Isabella's known this man for like, a day and a half max?

Lauren: Maybe like 36 hours.

Emily: And calling him Tilney. As you said earlier, something is afoot.

Lauren: Yeah. Isabella was the person who struck me as quite, quite adaptable in this section.

It starts with, when Henry and Catherine are talking about Isabella finally getting up to dance because Catherine replies to Henry when he asks, do you think, you know, do you think Isabella would go and dance with my brother? She responds without hesitation that "she was very sure Miss Thorpe did not mean to dance at all. And the cruel reply was passed on to the other and he immediately walked away."

And Catherine explains that this is because, you know, Isabella made a decision and she's really not going to, to waver from that. And so then when she does get up to go and dance, she's horrified. She says, "I cannot think how it could happen. Isabella was so determined not to dance." And Henry responds, "and did Isabella never change her mind before?" And Catherine says, "Oh, but-- because-- and your brother, after what you told him for me, how could [00:14:00] he think of going to ask her?" She's still trying to fathom how somebody could change their minds that quickly, or even how his brother could change his opinion and say, Oh, okay, well, I heard what Catherine said and I'm going to go do it anyway.

But she just does not get how Isabella could say one thing and then so promptly change her mind, because what Catherine heard was Isabella being firm in her convictions of 'I'm not going to dance. This is my decision. I will not be changing it,' only to immediately adapt and switch it up as soon as the dashing Captain Tilney comes to ask her to stand up with him and dance.

Emily: But, of course, we have seen, throughout the entire book, just how changeable Isabella's opinion is, because she's very good at saying, with great firmness, that she's going to do this one thing, and then 30 seconds later, she has changed her mind and done exactly the opposite. It was like, last section, or the section before, where Isabella's sitting down with Catherine and with James and is saying, 'Catherine, I'm not going to talk to anyone but you for the entire evening.' And a minute later, she's only talking to James and has completely forgotten Catherine.

Lauren: 100%. Adaptability, fickle, tomato, tomahto.

Emily: Yeah, with this one, I think there's not a significant difference.

Lauren: Not really.

Emily: Yeah. She's adapting to the circumstances as she sees them.

Lauren: And what is funny to me is that where she actually does have convictions is where she's not adaptable. So when she finds out, for example, it's going to take two to three years for her to get married to James Morland and that she'll only have an income of 400 pounds a year.

She's trying to convince Catherine that she's fine with this, but when they're discussing this, she says, "as to that, my sweet Catherine, there cannot be a doubt. And you know me well enough to be sure that a much smaller income would satisfy me. It is not the want of more money that makes me just at present, a little out of spirits. I hate money. And if our union could take place now upon only 50 pounds a year, I should not have a wish unsatisfied. Ah, my Catherine, you have found me out. There's the sting, the [00:16:00] long, long, endless two years and a half that are to pass before your brother can hold a living."

So she's trying to verbalize it. 'No, no, no, I'm fine.' But between the lines, you can see this is something that actually really bothers her. And you can tell that this is not something that she's going to budge on. She can say, I'd be fine with only 50 pounds a year, but what the readers are hearing, Catherine's maybe not hearing it, but what the readers are hearing is, 'I don't like this and I'm not willing to change my mind to marry you. Here is where I will not adapt.'

Emily: Yeah. I'm not waiting two and a half years to marry a man who's only going to have 400 pounds.

Lauren: Especially not when this super hot guy just showed up yesterday out of nowhere and asked me to dance. I've got options.

Emily: Interesting that. It's not precisely adaptability, but I also thought it was interesting Miss Tilney's hesitation in making that invitation to Catherine, because she comes off as being maybe a little reserved, like, in public, she's clearly like a very well mannered young lady.

but she's so hesitant in, in changing that topic and inviting Catherine to come to Northanger Abbey. and I'm really curious about that. I want to know where that hesitation comes from.

Lauren: Yeah, I almost wonder, based off of the conversations around... John Thorpe, if there have been rumors floating around that he may have placed that are causing the Tilneys to act just a little bit off towards Catherine, that they're not going to be impolite towards her because there's no you know, official announcement of an engagement, but I could see how they would be perhaps a little bit hesitant.

Emily: Yeah, because we know John has been running those rumors all around town as fast as he can.

Lauren: If he loves to do anything, it's run his mouth. And he feels secure enough to write to his sister about his intentions about Catherine. So Lord only knows what he's been saying in public.

Emily: Audacity of this man.

Lauren: Yeah, Isabella was 100 percent our best example of adaptability. [00:18:00] And lack thereof, in these three chapters, definitely.

Emily: Although I think, I think we have to give Catherine a little bit of credit for, you know, taking certain situations in stride when she's disappointed by her evening,with the Tilneys.

She just chalks it up to what it may very well have been, which is just a bad day on their part. Rather than taking it personally, which Isabella does immediately, despite not having been there.

Lauren: And without anxiety spiraling, which Chapter 1 Catherine definitely would have done.

Emily: Definitely.

Lauren: She's worried about it, but it's not all consuming her.

Emily: Yeah, it seems like she's, she's adapting well enough for her to, the social life of Bath and these particular companions she's found herself with.

Lauren: She's very slowly learning the social rules. So she is adapting to social life in Bath. You know, she'd been living the small town life and now she is starting to be exposed to more and she's learning about how she's supposed to interact.

She doesn't quite get it 100%, but she's, she's learning.

Emily: Pattern recognition. That's what it's all about.

Lauren: She's getting there. You know, the wheels are turning. She's doing her best.

Emily: She really is.

Lauren: I'm excited for Sweet Bebe Angel Catherine to go to Northanger Abbey.

Emily: I cannot wait.

Lauren: Are there any other things of note, plot wise that we should touch on?

Emily: I think that was it for me.

Lauren: I think so too. Let me double check.

Emily: Again, it was a very short section.

Lauren: Oh, I think, the only other thing that stood out to me, both as funny and as, A ping for adaptability was Catherine's final musings about Isabella when she's seen how she's interacting with Captain Tilney.

It says that "it seemed to her that Captain Tilney was falling in love with Isabella, and Isabella unconsciously encouraging him. Unconsciously, it must be, for Isabella's attachment to James was as certain and well acknowledged as her engagement." And even, Like, 10 years ago, when I wrote in this book, I just put, [00:20:00] eh...

I don't know about certain.

Emily: Yeah.

Lauren: I would maybe reevaluate that. And Catherine just doesn't, she sees it, but she doesn't see it all the way. Like it says, "how strange that she," meaning Isabella, "should not perceive his admiration!" Because she thinks that Isabella just doesn't get that Captain Tilney's falling in love with her and she's encouraging him on accident.

It's very much on purpose.

Emily: Catherine has her moments of insight. This is not really one of them, which is understandable. She wants to believe the very best of her friend.

Lauren: That's commendable.

Emily: Yes, absolutely. And it would be terrible of Isabella to become engaged to a man and mere days later start encouraging the affections of another.

And Catherine just can't fathom that her friend would do that.

Lauren: Especially not to her brother, who she loves so much.

Emily: Oh, sweet baby's about to have her heartbroken in so many ways.

Lauren: And meanwhile, Isabella's like, Hmm, we can still be sisters. Even if Catherine doesn't marry my brother, I marry a Tilney and you marry a Tilney, it's going to be fine.

Of course she doesn't say this straight out, but she's like, I got, okay. So plan a. Not working. Plan B.

Emily: Yep. Well, she's got, she's got plenty of options for being Catherine's sister because she could marry Catherine's brother, James. They could both marry Tilneys. Or she could marry a Tilney and Catherine could marry John.

Lauren: Oh yeah. True.

Emily: Mm hmm. So Isabella gets a new sister, regardless.

Lauren: She's like, everything's coming up roses.

Emily: I don't think I would want to be her sister though.

Lauren: No, I feel like she would be exhausting. If she were on your side in any kind of like argument or conflict. I would want her then, because I feel like once Isabella's out for blood, she will taste blood.

Emily: Yes.

Lauren: But any other type of situation? No. What a girl. If those are all of our plot points to discuss, shall we get into our [00:22:00] historical context?

Emily: Yes. So, I struggled a little bit with this one because the, the topic of marriage seems to be kind of the obvious connection here, but we've talked about that a lot.

So, I kind of went, like, down one particular path, because of Isabella's concerns with their income and the financial state. I started looking a little bit at, marriage settlements of the time. so a marriage settlement is something that, that Isabella and James would probably not have. They're kind of akin to modern prenups.

it determines the financial terms of a union ahead of time. and I just wanted to go over like, A couple of the assets that would be, potentially affected by a marriage settlement. Now, some of these things are relevant whether or not you have an actual settlement. like the first one, a dowry, which is the amount given by the bride's family to the groom or to his family.

It's intended to provide for her lifelong upkeep. And ultimately could be paid out to a widow after her husband's death. that was something that was common. Isabella, obviously they're talking about dowry that is relevant, but beyond that, you get into things that people of their status probably would not have access to or considerations for.

One of those is a private allowance for the wife. common law only required a husband to provide her necessities. So anything that could be considered a luxury, she might have to provide on her own. this private allowance is her discretionary funds, what she can spend without answering to her husband.

most women probably didn't have that particular luxury. Isabella probably would not have had a private allowance. Someone like Georgiana Darcy might have. but we are not at that level of society here. Yes. [00:24:00] Okay. Lauren's raising her hand.

Lauren: Okay. Speaking of private allowances, I would 100 percent recommend for anybody who would like a laugh and loves Olivia Colman to look up, Letters Live.

And Olivia Colman does a live reading of Lady Compton's 1618 letter to her husband, Lord William, where she's asking for a specific amount of money, paid quarterly, and all these different things that she wants. So this is, again, like not the, like Emily said, not the level or the class of the people who we're looking at Northanger Abbey, but if you're thinking about, what the, the 1 percent of the time were doing with their marriages, would highly recommend that dramatic reading of the letter because it's hilarious.

And I too would be asking for, Hundreds of thousands of pounds and multiple horses.

Emily: Incredible. All right, I'll have to look that up afterwards. So we've got dowry, we've got private allowance, but what happens to a woman if her husband dies? one consideration was jointure. So after a man's death, his estate, if he had one, obviously we're talking about operational ones here, that would go to an heir, the widow would receive anything that was specifically willed to her by her husband.

Plus what was set aside in her juncture in that initial marriage settlement. The jointure was a predetermined amount that was paid out by the estate as an annuity, which we've heard about before way back in, you know, Sense and Sensibility, we were talking about annuities. typically it would be one tenth of the amount of the dowry, which was predicated on the assumption that the average woman would outlive her husband by about ten years.

So when, Fanny Dashwood is complaining about paying out annuities to people who just won't die, that's the issue.

Lauren: You can't give them annuities, then they're determined to live forever.

Emily: Yep. But beyond that, settlements could also make provisions for children, so they could [00:26:00] ensure that, if the father died, that his property, would still be inherited by the children should the mother remarry and the property be in her hands at that time.

it could also protect the children of a first wife or previous wife from losing their mother's fortune to a second wife or a later wife and her family. Also, any money that a woman brought into a marriage from her dowry or from any other settlements by her family would pass to her children. But the father's estate could also make additional settlements.

but in these initial, like, marriage settlements, providing for children, they usually only stipulated, like, a total amount that would be settled on children. So, distribution could be... It changed, depending on circumstances. So depending on, you know, how many children you have, what their genders are, if somebody really fucks up bad, you can be like, I'm writing out you out of the will and like, I'm going to give your brother all of the money that was supposed to be yours, because it was only totals that, that was, stipulated.

but as I said, marriage settlements were pretty rare, they were almost exclusive to the landed gentry, so Isabella and James probably wouldn't have one, Catherine extremely unlikely to have one, it's unclear to me what the status of, like, the Tilneys is, they do obviously have some kind of property, Northanger Abbey, but what extent that is, what their actual, like, Rank is, is unclear.

so potentially they could have that kind of thing, but yeah, it was, it was very, upper levels of society, but I just, I thought that was, that was interesting that there was so much that goes into that and that kind of consideration for, not necessarily protecting a woman's assets, but also a little bit, because as we've discussed before, when a woman was married, she became a single legal [00:28:00] entity with her husband, which means that her husband was the legal entity.

Lauren: Which, which just will bother me every time I read about it. But it, it is interesting to see how even within those legal constraints where a woman was no longer legally herself after getting married, that there were still ways in which the law provided for her to at least pass on some wealth, even if she couldn't retain it on her own, but make sure it stayed within her line, so to speak.

Emily: Yeah. One interesting thing sort of tangentially that I came across was that unlike a lot of continental Europe in England, a woman could actually like inherit in her own right and have property in her own right. which of course we see in cases like Queen Mary and Elizabeth. So they weren't completely barred from it 'cause they were.

There were situations on in, in other places in Europe where women were just like completely disenfranchised from any kind of property ownership across the board, English women, if they were single had, had more, Individual rights in that way. But, yeah, it was still not not a great situation.

Lauren: No. I mean, honestly, being a widow always sounded like that was how you got the best deal.

Emily: Seriously.

Lauren: Men would leave you alone. you still had some level of respect. You had money.

Emily: Yep. So, yeah, that's, a little bit about some of the specifics of marriage that we may not have touched on so much in the past.

Lauren: Nice.

Emily: Thank you. What do you have for pop culture for us today?

Lauren: I was trying to do the perhaps ill advised thing of tying pop culture to the theme, which sometimes gets difficult to do.

Emily: Yeah.

Lauren: And so then I went from adaptability to being fickle because I was thinking about Isabella. And all of the dating drama in these three chapters made me realize that this is just like a Regency high school drama.

Emily: Oh no.

Lauren: And so the conclusion I came to is, is that today I would [00:30:00] like to compare it to the UK version of Skins.

Emily: Oh my goodness.

Lauren: AKA the original and the best version of Skins.

Emily: I remember your Skins era. I was there.

Lauren: it was an unfortunate time in my life and it still holds a special place in my heart.

I'm not gonna lie.

Emily: Look, we all have those times.

Lauren: For anybody who may not be aware, Skins was a TV show that aired, I think, on E4 in the UK. That was a teen drama that was meant to kind of get at the more realistic and grittier look at teenage life, so rather than a glossy 7th Heaven version of like happy go lucky families and teenagers living life with minimal drama, it would follow teenagers who were getting into some really serious stuff.

So it tackled things like drug use and eating disorders and abusive relationships and all these things, because those are actual things that teenagers go through. But within all of that, there was also a significant amount of dating drama because of course the show was following like 15 to 17 year olds.

So they're all stupid.

Emily: No shade to 15 to 17 year olds. That's just how that age is.

Lauren: We've all been there and we were all stupid. Like that's just you, you live and you learn and you hopefully eventually grow out of it. Not all of us do, but sometimes we do. And the dating drama is what specifically reminded me of Northanger Abbey because there are so many different couples that are happening just in the first season of the show. So you have Tony, who's like the ringleader of the friend group that the first season follows, who's dating Michelle, who is the cool girl, but also secretly a pick me. She will do anything to keep and retain Tony's affection, even when it's clear that he's mistreating her and cheating on her with the posh girl from a different school who he has had his eye on.

And Tony honestly reminds me most of John Thorpe in this kind of comparison because Tony is the one who approaches [00:32:00] relationships through a lens of either pragmatism or self interest or both. So 'what can this person do for me,' or, 'does it make me happy? In which case I don't really care about anybody else who I might be in a relationship with,' which is very John Thorpe of him to do.

Emily: Yeah, seriously.

Lauren: And then there are other people who are also involved in this triangle. So in theory, it's just Tony and Michelle in this relationship, except for Tony's best friend, Sid has been crushing on Michelle since the dawn of time, but he's best friends with Tony.

Sid is decidedly uncool and doesn't think that Michelle will ever really look at him. There is also Cassie who has a crush on Sid, who of course does not have eyes for Cassie because he's too busy mooning over Michelle. Cassie doesn't really know what to do with that. So she just keeps kind of following after Sid, like a lost puppy.

They all just continue kind of swapping partners throughout the course of the first season. So Michelle will get mad because she finds out that Tony cheated on her. But she won't leave because she is determined to hold on to this person who she thinks gives her social status, which honestly reminds me of something Isabella would do.

And, there are other characters who are not dating, but are kind of just peripheral to all of this. I think the one who would be most applicable to Catherine would probably be Cassie, just because she's usually the one with kind of like wide eyed innocence for a lot of things. She doesn't really get the extent of how much the other kids don't want to include her in things.

So she shows up to parties because she's fun and she brings drugs and she's probably going to do something stupid. She's not actually being included because they want her there. And she gets that to an extent, but not fully because she keeps showing up. And so sometimes there'll be something particularly cruel that's said where you can see that it clicks in her brain of, Oh, Oh, this isn't the relationship that I thought that we had. I thought we were actually friends, but evidently you've been making fun of me this entire time, which is really sad and also reminds me of [00:34:00] what would happen to Catherine if she were thrown into like, 2007 British social teenage social circles rather than Regency England without the veneer of politeness that Regency manners dictate when it's 2007 and teenagers are left unsupervised. There is no veneer of politeness that saves you from how cruel teenagers can be.

And seeing how Cassie reacts, that kind of reminds me of how Catherine would react to it as well. Those are the, the main things that I was thinking of is that. If you picked up Northanger Abbey and were to relate it to some kind of modern TV show or something like that, what is coming to mind for me, because as Emily said, I did have a Skins era in 2012.

It's not my fault. I was on Tumblr. I don't know what to tell you.

Emily: We all made mistakes on 2012 Tumblr.

Lauren: It was a genuinely good show, so I will stand ten toes down behind that phase of my life, but--

Emily: fair enough.

Lauren: If it were the US version of Skins, I would have some atoning to do. Because that was horrendous.

The U. S. tried to, like, sanitize it in a very American way, so it missed the entire point of the show and it was just not good, but the long and short of it is that I am very amused by similar social dynamics from Regency England appearing in 2007 England, just in completely different environments and ways.

Emily: Fascinating.

Lauren: Thank you.

Emily: You know, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Lauren: Exactly. Yeah. That's really the common thread is that it's a completely different environment and time period and Skins is a far more diverse cast as well, both in terms of socioeconomic status and race. But even with that, he's--

Emily: humans is humans.

Lauren: Humans is humans. And those social dynamics persist. That's it. That's all I got.

Emily: Love it. Thank you. You are very welcome. Well, with that, shall we go ahead and move on to our final takeaways?

Lauren: Yeah, I [00:36:00] think we should.

Emily: My takeaway is that adaptability is not the same as a lack of conviction.

Lauren: Ooh, okay. I like it. Yeah, that's a good takeaway.

Emily: Nice and succinct this time. What is your takeaway?

Lauren: I have one on the tip of my tongue, but I feel like it's not actually a valid one.

Emily: Just say it.

Lauren: Humans gonna human?

Emily: Yeah.

Lauren: I know it's only recency bias because that was what we just discussed, but I think, yeah. Genuinely, a takeaway from this section is that even in a variety of time periods or social situations or with different social constraints, humans remain the same.

Emily: Completely true. Which is why we keep reading and relating to these books. Now that relatability is everything, as we have spoken about before.

Lauren: But it's, it is a good reason why people can still read and enjoy the classics, and why the classics persist. Because--

Emily: it's the resonance.

Lauren: Exactly. Because people, humanity is the same.

Emily: All right, shall we draw our tarot card?

Lauren: We shall.

Emily: All right. Our next card is the King of Clubs, or the Magician.

Lauren: The king of clubs is skill and the text is, "Jane Austen makes magic with her pen at her writing desk, using her prowess to begin something new."

Emily: That's going to be such an interesting topic to apply.

That's so broad.

Lauren: It is very broad. I wonder if we can pull in an aspect of the magician, given that we're going to Northanger Abbey.

Emily: I can't wait to find out. We shall see.[00:38:00]

Lauren: Thank you for joining us in this episode of Reclaiming Jane. Next time we'll be reading Chapters 19 through 21 of Northanger Abbey through the lens of skill.

Emily: To read our show notes and a transcript of this episode, check out our website, reclaimingjanepod.com, where you can also find the full back catalog and links to our social media.

Lauren: If you'd like to support us and gain access to exclusive content, you can join our Patreon at Reclaiming Jane Pod.

Emily: Reclaiming Jane is produced and Co-hosted by Lauren Wethers and Emily Davis Hale. Our music is by Latasha Bundy, and our show Art is by Emily Davis Hale.

Lauren: We'll see you next time, nerds.

Emily: Now I'm going to call out whoever this editor is.

Lauren: Not you have beef.

Emily: Introduction and notes by Alfred Mac Adam. Alfred Mac Adam, we have beef.